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[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Ah, it's you again, with another "if X how come Y, checkmate alt-right" type post. Your post seems to be based on a huge strawman, namely, that we believe genetics fully determine everyones behaviour and outcomes in life.

I've only seen the Alt-right take a hardline approach that genes are in fact destiny. People who are moderate or skew towards the left believe in both genetics and environments, but that IQ itself is malleable. And historical evidence absolutely does point to such cases. Flynn effect shows we are in fact smarter than our ancestors, even if the same ancestors were capable of building giants castles we don't quite see anymore. Asian countries like China & Japan were still significantly lagging behind Europe in development but come the 21st century, Japan has in many ways surpassed the West and China is basically second world where it rivals the west in being both better and worst in some ways. Yet the Japanese or Chinese didn't magically inherit White peoples genes all these years. You could argue their diets could have changed or something but do a DNA test and show me if their results skew towards being nothing like their ancestors, or still containing the same traces of it?

Regardless of whether true free will actually exists or not, the murderer should still be removed from polite society, in order to protect the innocent from becoming the murderer's next victims (at least until the murderer has been sucessfully rehabilitated into a better person, if not permanently), get punished to deliver justice to the victim's friends and relatives (and society at large), and should definitely get forcibly sterilized so he can't (further) corrupt the gene pool.

So assuming these people don't understand the harm of their actions, you believe in a smarter group of society dealing appropriate punishment? Why stop at the subject murder and not say, apply this to everything?

Funny that you mention a dystopia where human beings are treated like animals, because if you're strongly opposed to such a society (which I am), you should actually be supporting eugenics, and racial homogeneity, rather than opposing them, since improving people so they become smarter and less prone to commit crime, and not importing foreign peoples with conflicting group interests, would actually reduce the need for an extensive, totalitarian police state to keep society safe and stable.

If you and I supported eugenics, it also means we're taking the chances with being born. Regardless if you are healthy, some doctor or political organization could have looked at your mother's womb, say "naw, abort the kid" and you would have never known life. Even though I understand the arguments that eugenics could be used to eliminate certain diseases, what if being liberal is considered a defect? Or Alt-right? It's labels like these that are perfect for an Elite group to reshape society as they see fit.

Killing babies is evil and disgusting as fuck regardless of the reasons and circumstances, but if if they detirmined my future child would be genetically prone to have a low IQ and/or be a rapist in the early stages of my wife's pregnancy, I'd definitely get her to terminate the pregnancy. Likewise, I think people who are genetically prone to have low-IQs and/or be rapists (but haven't acutally raped anyone) shouldn't be allowed to reproduce, but they should still be treated humanely, and get taken care of if needed. So if it was up to me, we shouldn't allow those babies to keep being born, but for those who have already been born it isn't their fault so they should be treated with dignity just like everyone else.

Interesting opinion. Once again, I'm open to respecting other people's viewpoints.

That would be highly unlikely, since I'm not a terrorist, but if it indeed got detirmed I would be so genetically prone to terrorism, I would definitely refrain from reproducing so the gene pool wouldn't get corrupted with my genes, and instead encourage my close relatives to reproduce a lot.

Now here's something I want you to think about. What if the same genes for terrorism are tied to genes for empathy? Or the genes that could make someone rapist are also connected to being a great singer? Human DNA is extraordinarily complex, that maybe now you can understand my fear of reducing people or groups to single labels? Especially if we learned all this time Humans have the ability to resist their own nature despite it being hardwired in us?

There's no reason to believe that scientific racialism and eugenicism are uniquely prone to make a society commit large-scale atrocities, since almost none of the countries where such beliefs dominated (except for nazi Germany) carried out large-scale atrocities, and almost none of the societies which historically carried out large-scale atrocities held such beliefs. Almost any ideology is capable of making carry out atrocities.

Not true. South Africa pushed many atrocities under Apartheid. WW2 Japan enslaved or slaughtered many other Asians in the name of superiority. In the USA, the defense of the slave trade stemmed from pseudo-scientific ideas that Africans were born to serve White people (there's a famous scene from the movie Django Unchained, where a slave owner brags about his African slaves having different shaped skulls as to why they wont fight back). Correlation does not imply causation however, so you're right that the study of race doesn't have to be villainous. But at the same time, it did lead to huge amounts of suffering that could have deliberately been avoided. Like Nazi Germany for example, Hitler didn't have to create death squads whose only purpose was exterminating Jews,Russians,Gypsies etc and resettling conquered areas with only German people. Or Japanese scientists would also capture Chinese civilians and cut them apart to study their bodies. Race Science took inhumanity to a whole new level.

In World War 2, Germany was completely bombed into in ruins, and directly after World War 2 it got occupied by the allied forces. Yet it didn't become a shithole. Quite the contrary, within only a couple of decades, West Germany became one of the most prosperous and advanced nations in the world

The allies were not going to let West Germany fall behind. The Marshall Plan was specifically created to get many European countries back on their feet and counter the new Communist threat. Meanwhile, you left out East Germany which was in fact a shithole and ruled by a dictator.

What's holding most third world countries back from following in Germany's footsteps?

France demands many former African colonies still pay a special tax to them. Or how about the many foreign sponsored wars in the Middle East? It's hard to rebuild your country when predator drones are flying outside your house and they just blew up the only hospital in the province. So yes, it's fair to say foreign intervention is holding many places back.

[–]asterias 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Yet the Japanese or Chinese didn't magically inherit White peoples genes all these years.

Japanese and Chinese had an advanced civilization and the Chinese go back thousands of years. Just because they were late into the industrial age (because they had chosen isolation from the rest of the barbaric world) doesn't mean they were inferior.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

If you can accept Civilizations can be late to the party, why bother with inferior and superior labels? I don't deny the third world are clearly underdeveloped. But there's no evidence that says it will always be that way forever. Especially as more foreign investments are pouring into these downtrodden nations, there is a renewed incentive to get people out of poverty and into the workforce.

And it strikes me as a little bit suspicious that an "advanced" nation would isolate itself, when the negative effects rear itself immediately. A modern example of this is North Korea. They've closed themselves from the rest of the world and as a result, their society still resembles the 1960s instead of looking like their more advanced neighbor, South Korea. It would not be wrong to assume there are parts of Brazil or South Africa that have more advanced infrastructure than North Korea does.

[–]asterias 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

The Chinese didn't need anyone to pour funds into their country; they did it with their work and intelligence, and this after Mao left nothing but ruins. The Japanese saw their country completely devastated by nuclear bombs.

In the meantime, South Africa regresses back to third world and the thought of Africans creating a new civilization doesn't sound too plausible to me.

The concept of isolationism didn't come out of nowhere. These nations had good cause to prefer it, but obviously American and British intervention denied them this right.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The Chinese didn't need anyone to pour funds into their country; they did it with their work and intelligence, and this after Mao left nothing but ruins.

Sorry, but I have to call you out on this. China from 1900 ~ 2000 was suppose to be all brains? No. They absolutely got help from Germany, where even Hitler at one point wanted to make China their ally but funnily enough, even with Germany's help, they were getting destroyed by their neighbor Japan which ultimately lead to Germany switching partners. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-German_cooperation_(1926%E2%80%931941)

Mao Zedong, THE COMMUNIST, didn't just operate alone. He had big time help from the Soviet Union who provided him millions in loans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_Treaty_of_Friendship,_Alliance_and_Mutual_Assistance

The Japanese saw their country completely devastated by nuclear bombs.

Yeah they did, but you deliberately ignored America was not interested in letting Japan rot after the war. Just like West Germany, it was part of the post WW2 agenda to have another ally against the Soviets. https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/japan-reconstruction

In the meantime, South Africa regresses back to third world and the thought of Africans creating a new civilization doesn't sound too plausible to me.

Modern South Africa still has a higher GDP per capita vs the end of Apartheid. They're actually more rich, despite their government being corrupt. But it's just one African country, which is really bizarre to judge an entire continent. Like I said in the last thread, imagine using Ukraine to describe all of Europe? It's just not scientific... The past decade has actually shown African countries are beginning to undertake some more ambitious projects. Ethiopia has already met their goal of constructing a new hydroelectric dam. Rwanda has also seriously stepped up its urbanization efforts (which is important, since city's play an important role in driving economic growth). https://www.designindaba.com/articles/point-view/planning-impossible

The concept of isolationism didn't come out of nowhere. These nations had good cause to prefer it,

And they paid the ultimate price for it when European powers marched inside their borders and basically stole territory from them. China wouldn't regain control of Hong Kong until what? 1997? And that was after they were forced to sign a humiliating contract that let the British own it for 99 years. These countries are always free to go back to being isolationist again. But they can enjoy sitting next to North Korea and completely stagnating.

These nations had good cause to prefer it, but obviously American and British intervention denied them this right.

This sounds like a defense of the current third world situation. The British and USA are still screwing with them to this day with foreign intervention. It's more important these countries catch up economically so they can reassert their sovereignty.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

By the way, about the Japan question, there's a huge misconception about how they were punished by the end of the war. The atomic bomb attacks were detonated in the air so there was less radiation on the ground (important for soldiers to come by and inspect the damage). The city of Kyoto was left completely untouched despite Japan hosting most of their war factories there. The Emperor was never convicted and many Japanese scientists who worked on the horrific United 731 projects were given immunity. That's not to say the country still wasn't left in ashes after the war, but Japan's fate was very generous when you remember the USA never launched an all out land invasion, like what happened to Germany.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

My understanding is that the bomb was released in the air to maximize destruction. How would releasing a nuclear weapon above the ground reduce radiation?

This all might be moot. Nuclear weapons IMO are a big LARP. I doubt they are as destructive as the US military says they are if they even exist. I don't deny that nuclear weapons are real but I am a skeptic. The US government lies about everything and I wouldn't put it past them to lie about nuclear weapons.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)