A big flaw about white demographic change that can't be ignored.

submitted by radicalcentristNational Centrism from self.debatealtright

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[–]yesofcoursenaturally 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

For example, the most popular I've seen is that an elite group of people are deliberately forcing white people to intermarry with other racial groups, in order to create a subservient race who are suppose to be slaves or are mentally too "dumb" to ever rebel against the new world order.

That's a very specific claim which isn't as important as the main thrust: an intentional war on White people.

the slave owner dream.

The slave owner dream isn't of necessarily stupid people, but subservient people. I think the 'intentionally creating a race of low-IQ people' line is wrong - if anything I suspect a vastly more nihilistic attitude of the elites. But regardless, they want people who will obey, and accept all their moral dictates. Low-IQ may help with that, but it's not the end goal itself even under that suspicion.

So they have all the power to destroy themselves right now,

They don't, or at a minimum, they don't think they do. If they cut off access to health care and completely cut their funding overnight, you'd see a reaction. Macron has tons of power, but those Yellow Vest riots are a real concern, and that's over comparably minor changes.

Even if the nefarious reasons are right, how did the alt-right predict or guarantee that white oppression is something that must exist in the future as opposed to the idea that humans could actually work together or get over tribal differences?

There's plenty of ways to get over tribal differences and they all involve borders.

That doesn't mean I want to see White people go away but how does the fear that White people are going to be targeted coincide with the same Leftists who believe in eradicating suffering?

If you take leftists' words at face value, all I can say is you're being incredibly naive. The number of leftists who 'want to eradicate suffering' and who also practically orgasm at causing pain and misery to people who reject their moral beliefs in the most minimal sense is incredible. See: JK Rowling, who is on paper a leftist through and through, but she's a stick in the mud about 'trans women' being women, so now she - a billionaire with probably the most popular franchise in the world - is despised by a tremendous number of people.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

That's a very specific claim which isn't as important as the main thrust: an intentional war on White people.

If that's your opinion, I'll respect it. My own personal opinion is there is a war waged by corporations on the natural environment, but it's not racial in origin. However, I think we can find common ground that Corporations should not have unlimited power to do things that may be viewed as "harmful" or "genocide".

The slave owner dream isn't of necessarily stupid people, but subservient people. I think the 'intentionally creating a race of low-IQ people' line is wrong - if anything I suspect a vastly more nihilistic attitude of the elites. But regardless, they want people who will obey, and accept all their moral dictates. Low-IQ may help with that, but it's not the end goal itself even under that suspicion.

Bringing races together or even breeding them together still doesn't scientifically explain how the Elites get to control a group of people who will always be submissive. It's found in every race's genes that they have free will and can rebel against a specific order. Even in hardcore dictatorships like China, the CCP are not immune to any uprisings. Hell, they already have Hong Kong on their hands and the population still refuses to submit. Even if the planet was 100% mixed race, I don't expect anything to change. Human beings, as a species, are not coded to be obedient. A much more nefarious and smarter plot by the Elite, would be to remove the Human equation all together and replace them with actual robots, since they can be coded to never rebel or question things. But now we're getting into the Matrix territory....

They don't, or at a minimum, they don't think they do. If they cut off access to health care and completely cut their funding overnight, you'd see a reaction. Macron has tons of power, but those Yellow Vest riots are a real concern, and that's over comparably minor changes.

At the least, if there was serious anti-white hatred, I would expect to see some kind of reverse Jim Crow or Apartheid used against White people. Trudeau or Biden could absolutely make the lives of White people more miserable right now without triggering a war but White prosperity still remains the best it's ever been in history. But I don't believe for a second they are completely powerless. Remember when Obama drone striked a U.S citizen? Or when George Bush expanded state powers of widespread surveillance? There wasn't a reaction/riot despite the sweeping changes it brought in terms of population control.

There's plenty of ways to get over tribal differences and they all involve borders.

That's correct. We also have multicultural cities that still enjoy relative levels of peace and the majority of its citizens get along.

If you take leftists' words at face value, all I can say is you're being incredibly naive. The number of leftists who 'want to eradicate suffering' and who also practically orgasm at causing pain and misery to people who reject their moral beliefs in the most minimal sense is incredible. See: JK Rowling, who is on paper a leftist through and through, but she's a stick in the mud about 'trans women' being women, so now she - a billionaire with probably the most popular franchise in the world - is despised by a tremendous number of people.

I absolutely agree that not all Leftists are truthful and they can also be their own worst enemy. The Soviet Union at its height was a Far-Leftist Empire and it caused suffering.... That said, we also can't ignore the good that Liberalism has brought to the table that has helped remove suffering. Civil rights, environment regulations, eradicating illiteracy. It's not all Hippie BS. But then again, this is why politics needs to be open minded and balanced instead of echo chambers that force a Far-Left or Far-Right slant.

[–]yesofcoursenaturally 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

If that's your opinion, I'll respect it. My own personal opinion is there is a war waged by corporations on the natural environment, but it's not racial in origin.

Most people refuse to see the racial aspects of these movements (at least insofar as they relate to White people) because to do so feels icky and their friends will call them nazis and they don't want that.

If corporations are simply greedy, that's the kind of problem you can argue with your friends about. If corporations hate White people, or particularly White culture or history, then you're going to be a pariah among many of your friends if you talk about it, in many circles.

So, lo' and behold, people look very closely and discover that it has nothing to do with race at all. (Or if it does, the real victims are whoever is not White.) No matter how explicitly people attack or promote policies and cultures against White people and particularly White culture and history.

Bringing races together or even breeding them together still doesn't scientifically explain how the Elites get to control a group of people who will always be submissive.

And very docile domesticated animals sometimes bite people. But to deny there's been progress made in intentionally making more gentle, harmless dogs (once known as wolves) is simply wrong.

At the least, if there was serious anti-white hatred, I would expect to see some kind of reverse some Jim Crow or Apartheid used against White people.

There already is, expanded to include corporate action, which is no joke. Unless you're extremely docile. They don't really bother deplatforming White people who are completely inoffensive and in fact are afraid of talking frankly about anti-White hate, typically, unless they offend another great cultural taboo like criticize gays.

I absolutely agree that not all Leftists are truthfully and they can also be their own worst enemy.

No, I didn't say they're 'their own worst enemy'. I'm saying that they're malicious and dishonest. They're not seeking Utopia and, gosh darnit, just don't understand the harm they do. They pay lip service to the idea of 'justice' and mostly it's a way to lash out and punish people.

Civil rights, environment regulations, eradicating illiteracy. It's not all Hippie BS.

Putting aside how rotten half of those things are - civil rights as the modern left understands it are absurd - those weren't creations of liberals, except insofar as people look at history and go 'Oh I like that. Liberals did that.' A bit like how WWII is now, for idiots, 'Antifa versus DA FASH' and ignoring how the Allies were composed of literal unrepentant colonizers and guys who were adamantly opposed to racial integration, among other things.

That's correct. We also have multicultural cities that still enjoy relative levels of peace and the majority of its citizens get along.

"Other than the massive amount of racially charged riots we had during the summer, we get along just swell, fellas!" Or better yet, "Toronto has a high population of non-White people (Asians) and they don't have a lot of violent crime, so I don't understand why you can't have a similar culture in Detroit."

But then again, this is why politics needs to be open minded and balanced instead of echo chambers that force a Far-Left or Far-Right slant.

No one respects centrists, and no one will for a long time, because everyone has figured out that a key component of 'centrism' isn't a firm commitment to a belief (they'd be "extreme" then) but meekness and opportunism. Their ideology changes based on what's in vogue at the moment, and they reposition in reaction to both changing power structures (no matter how rapid or unjust) or outright threats.

It's why the left was able to roll over most institutions. Because centrism/being moderate is the norm among people, and those are precisely the people who always shut up and behave. Which is why the NFL itself featured an ad saying 'Everyone should be a centrist!'

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Most people refuse to see the racial aspects of these movements (at least insofar as they relate to White people) because to do so feels icky and their friends will call them nazis and they don't want that. If corporations are simply greedy, that's the kind of problem you can argue with your friends about. If corporations hate White people, or particularly White culture or history, then you're going to be a pariah among many of your friends if you talk about it, in many circles. So, lo' and behold, people look very closely and discover that it has nothing to do with race at all. (Or if it does, the real victims are whoever is not White.) No matter how explicitly people attack or promote policies and cultures against White people and particularly White culture and history.

It's not that I think race itself has no importance to this grand conspiracy, it's my belief that race is not necessary to pull it off. I know the Alt-Right likes to give special attention to White people but history has always been more complex than what just one group of people did or existed during a certain time period. Great examples of this already exist. China today is a far different society than it was 100 years ago. Same with Japan, or Brazil or many African countries. The focus on genetic determinism as the above all reason to explain how the world works has never been consistent given there are so many variables at play or that the environment is always changing.

The only thing that hasn't changed all this time is human greed and the desire for infinite power. And funny enough, the element of greed is a better predictor of who gets to usurp power while at the same time, also losing it. If it was genes only, Britain would still have their colonial empire. Or Japan would have controlled all of Asia in WW2. But nope, they've all fallen. Their race didn't give them magic super powers to not be a detriment to themselves.

And very docile domesticated animals sometimes bite people. But to deny there's been progress made in intentionally making more gentle, harmless dogs (once known as wolves) is simply wrong.

I don't think the comparison to dogs work. How do you breed out "free will" from a Man? And which race has those perfect combination of genes that ensures the future populations wont rise up or rebel? A domesticated human that never questions things might as well be considered a completely new species. And honestly, that would require every human being on earth to undergo such transformation because a lot of people would notice quickly if one race of people worked themselves to death without question.

There already is, expanded to include corporate action, which is no joke. Unless you're extremely docile. They don't really bother deplatforming White people who are completely inoffensive and in fact are afraid of talking frankly about anti-White hate, typically, unless they offend another great cultural taboo like criticize gays.

Apartheid/Jim Crow literally uprooted people from their homes and forced them to live somewhere else. While there is hatred against White people by the media, they are not exactly facing forced government obstacles to make their lives inferior. Just look at wages/standards of living for example. They are still considered the most affluent group in the U.S, only second to Asians/Jews. Justin Trudeau or Biden, if they really hated Whites, should be forcing them all into immediate poverty with no hope of climbing out of it.

No, I didn't say they're 'their own worst enemy'. I'm saying that they're malicious and dishonest. They're not seeking Utopia and, gosh darnit, just don't understand the harm they do. They pay lip service to the idea of 'justice' and mostly it's a way to lash out and punish people.

We have to agree to disagree. Leftists probably view you the same way where they believe anyone on the right is completely unredeemable or they don't make positive contributions. My view of Leftists is there are a lot of bullshitters (like with every political group), but they can still be correct once in a while.

Putting aside how rotten half of those things are - civil rights as the modern left understands it are absurd - those weren't creations of liberals, except insofar as people look at history and go 'Oh I like that. Liberals did that.' A bit like how WWII is now, for idiots, 'Antifa versus DA FASH' and ignoring how the Allies were composed of literal unrepentant colonizers and guys who were adamantly opposed to racial integration, among other things.

I understand where you're coming from. I guess a better analogy is progressivism vs conservatism. Ending slavery or giving women equal rights were definitely ideas resisted by the other side who preferred society stay traditional. Insofar, I don't these ideas were rotten since it made a lot of people happier and freed them from what was a life of eternal punishment.

"Other than the massive amount of racially charged riots we had during the summer, we get along just swell, fellas!" Or better yet, "Toronto has a high population of non-White people (Asians) and they don't have a lot of violent crime, so I don't understand why you can't have a similar culture in Detroit."

Both sides can make an infinite amount of comparisons in terms of which is safer. As proof, I did come across a reddit thread recently that compared homicide rate to the U.S. While plenty of EU countries are safer than some U.S states, homogenous nations like Lithuania or Estonia were more dangerous than multicultural states like California and New York. https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/lg0xt9/homicide_rates_in_us_vs_eu/ However, I know the Alt-Right will rejoice at this information as proof that an all white country is more likely to be safe. But keep in mind, there's also proof that Whiteness in itself doesn't guarantee society can't be extremely violent either.

No one respects centrists, and no one will for a long time, because everyone has figured out that a key component of 'centrism' isn't a firm commitment to a belief (they'd be "extreme" then) but meekness and opportunism. Their ideology changes based on what's in vogue at the moment, and they reposition in reaction to both changing power structures (no matter how rapid or unjust) or outright threats. It's why the left was able to roll over most institutions. Because centrism/being moderate is the norm among people, and those are precisely the people who always shut up and behave. Which is why the NFL itself featured an ad saying 'Everyone should be a centrist!'

Centrists get elected all the time. I would argue being a moderate is very important for winning elections, because people (at least in the Western world) instantly get cold feet at becoming a Communist state, or installing a fascist leader.

[–]yesofcoursenaturally 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's not that I think race itself has no importance to this grand conspiracy, it's my belief that race is not necessary to pull it off.

At this point, you're just babbling.

While there is hatred against White people by the media, they are not exactly facing forced government obstacles to make their lives inferior.

Also, no one attempted to assassinate Fidel Castro, because Fidel Castro died of natural causes.

I don't think the comparison to dogs work. How do you breed out "free will" from a Man?

You go from lecturing that the supposed plans of elites to engineer more docile societies are "unscientific", and then cite a completely unscientific concept as a flaw in their plans.

We have to agree to disagree. Leftists probably view you the same way where they believe anyone on the right is completely unredeemable or they don't make positive contributions.

Yeah, this old canard. Two people accuse each other of murder. They must both be murderers. Or neither. It cannot possibly be the case that one is, in fact, a murderer. What would the centrist do then?

I guess a better analogy is progressivism vs conservatism.

It's the same analogy with the same flaws. Progressives get retroactively cast as the positive forces in all ways. Weird how NAMBLA is never described as a progressive organization.

Centrists get elected all the time.

When they do get elected, it's because they do as they're told when pressure is applied. See: Joe Biden. He's actually the perfect example of what "centrism" cashes out to: a senile old man who isn't in control of anything and doesn't mind that much because he'll benefit personally.

And the Western world is where both communism and fascism rose.

Stop seeking out debate with strangers over topics you don't understand and are frankly afraid of thinking about critically as an excuse for a social life. Go on a date or something.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Also, no one attempted to assassinate Fidel Castro, because Fidel Castro died of natural causes.

Strange comparison, especially given Fidel was just one man and was a threat to his own people. If the government was truly pulling off reverse Apartheid, they're terribly incompetent at it or it has no affect on white lives. Whites still get to own their property or make millions of dollars without going to prison for it. Far from being oppressed or worse, violently genocided.

You go from lecturing that the supposed plans of elites to engineer more docile societies are "unscientific", and then cite a completely unscientific concept as a flaw in their plans.

You are correct I made two different arguments, however, I don't see how the free will of man is unscientific. It's absolutely not possible to breed humans like dogs and expect the same results. You are seriously underestimating humanity if you think we can be forced to act a certain way forever.

If the Elites really want the perfect worker drone, then they're just going to have to scrap using humans all together. Not chaotically mix and match different ethnic groups together like it's LEGO or an Automobile. Human beings have technically been race mixing for thousands of years. Neanderthal genes made their way into Homo Sapien populations. Our evolutionary history and the way we behave just can't be compared to dog breeding.

Yeah, this old canard. Two people accuse each other of murder. They must both be murderers. Or neither. It cannot possibly be the case that one is, in fact, a murderer. What would the centrist do then?

Based off history, I would definitely prefer to label both as murderers. But whoever causes the most aggression/destruction first, I will go against them. Such was the case of WW2, despite the Soviets being just as bad as Germany.

It's the same analogy with the same flaws. Progressives get retroactively cast as the positive forces in all ways. Weird how NAMBLA is never described as a progressive organization.

One organization supports abusing children who cannot consent, whereas the other wanted to stop the abuse of enslaved groups who never asked to be oppressed? Yeah, it's very easy to see how progressivism gets cast as positive if traditional models were fine abusing people...

When they do get elected, it's because they do as they're told when pressure is applied. See: Joe Biden. He's actually the perfect example of what "centrism" cashes out to: a senile old man who isn't in control of anything and doesn't mind that much because he'll benefit personally.

That just sounds like politics in general. No one is really in control because they either don't want to alienate a voting bloc, or they listen to special interest groups.

And the Western world is where both communism and fascism rose.

And where are they today? Communism fell and Fascism hasn't seen a return since the end of WW2.