Brilliant article from thuletide shatters the myth of supersonic Jewish IQ

submitted by casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter from self.debatealtright

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[–]cisheteroscumWhite Nationalist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

I did this already in more detail

I just skimmed this article but I can look at it in detail later

[–]cisheteroscumWhite Nationalist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

My comments:

Even in the scientifically implausible scenario that Ashkenazim are not lying about their IQ, their over-representation in the upper echelons of society cannot be attributed to that factor

This is the bottom line - and is almost incontrovertibly true

It’s often claimed that Ashkenazi Jews have an IQ of between 108 and 115, averaging at 111; which is the highest IQ in the world.

Yes. I say it's 110

This article is focused on Ashkenazim

Yes no one cares about the other groups

Nothing much in the middle to disagree with

The claim of Jewish super-IQ seemingly sprung up from nowhere, unsupported by previous studies on Jewish intelligence

Before the 1940s or so most young US Jews still spoke Yiddish and barely spoke English. Lynn talks about this. The reason it "sprung out of nowhere" was because IQ tests were just starting to be a thing at the time and tests on Jews are small in number in general because Jews are a fraction of the population

Israeli IQ

Lynn talks about this in his book. The gist is 1) Israel is not full of Ashkenazis 2) Many so-called "Ashkenazis" are probably gentiles who tried to escape the soviet union 3) it could be the more successful Jews just decided to stay in Western countries instead of emigrating

So this explains 103 for Israel and 110ish for non-Israeli Ashkenazim

A study on Israeli children from ages 9 to 15 conducted by Kaniel and Fisherman demonstrates that they have a distinctly average IQ of 100

IQ scores have lower heritability in childhood. Most of the racial differences don't manifest until adulthood. This is true of the black-white IQ gap too

somehow managed to “evolve” a one-standard-deviation IQ advantage over Northern Europeans and an almost-two-standard-deviation IQ advantage over Middle Eastern Jews, their genetic ancestors, in a mere 1,000 to 2,000 years

There is no reason given for why this is implausible

If this hypothesis were accurate, shouldn’t the Middle Eastern Mizrahim, who practice identical traditions, have experienced this intelligence boost as well?

This is a good argument against the "memorizing Talmud" theory, but this theory is also the weakest explanation for Ashkenazim IMO

Can oppression and persecution increase the IQ of a population group? Let’s ask our friend, Global IQ Map, about the “persecuted” and “oppressed” peoples of the World.

This is a juvenile and weak critique of the argument. Obviously the lefty meme that brown people are "oppressed" is just total BS and makes no sense in the de-colonized modern era. By contrast, Jews lived in Europe and could not (or did not) flee the continent and had to constantly move between different principalities and kingdoms to avoid persecution (and sometimes, execution). This is not the same as the situation in Africa or other places today, and happened to Jews for about 2,000 years, having a eugenic effect on their intelligence.

The Mizrahim of the Middle East and Sephardim of North Africa are and were over-represented in these trades, and have been so for many centuries. Yet, their average IQ is almost two standard deviations lower than the Ashkenazim

But they are 2/3rds a SD above the native inhabitants of the area which is a trend that holds true for almost all Jewish groups and is essential for the kinds of trades they engage in. That is the connection

Also this author doesn't address any of the PGS data that also corroborates 110

The bottom line is this:

1).We don't know for sure how much smarter Ashkenazi Jews are relative to White Gentiles (but we know they are at least somewhat smarter, 5-12 points, I say 110)

2) And even the most generous assumptions on Ashkenazi IQ cannot explain their power

You don't need to make any allegations of fakery or whatever to show this. Their overrepresentation still has to be due to "something else" - and it's up to denialists to prove it isn't what it obviously is

[–]SoylentCapitalist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

their over-representation in the upper echelons of society cannot be attributed to that factor

It can, to an extent. Based on an IQ percentile calculator, at 110 average IQ for Jews, 130 IQ for whites would be 1 in 44. 130 IQ for Ashkenazi Jews is 1 in 11. 130 IQ being slightly above the average IQ of a college professor and those with PhD's.

From that foundation and tribalism it's easier for them to keep the wealth inequality higher in favor of Jews.

[–]cisheteroscumWhite Nationalist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It can, to an extent.

I talk about this in my post. I need to fucking publish this finally.

[–]GConly 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Ashkenazi verbal is about 125, and that's the part of IQ that correlates better to life succes.

IIRC, east Asian higher IQ is almost all on VSM, it's about the same as Euro for verbal. Good engineers, mediocre innovators.

[–]cisheteroscumWhite Nationalist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

that's the part of IQ that correlates better to life succes.

True but

Ashkenazi verbal is about 125

This is impossible. Could you reasonably say a population so closely related genetically to Europeans has an average verbal IQ nearly two standard deviations above the mean? Maybe 115, a full SD, but not 125

east Asian higher IQ is almost all on VSM, it's about the same as Euro for verbal

AFAIK

GConly

Tell me you aren't actually Greg Cochran

Edit: "Gender Critical only", lol that makes more sense

[–]GConly 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Their deviation is less than 1 SD higher total, it's only on verbal it's not much higher.

Yes it is possible, there's a decent case to be made that some of their heritable diseases like torsion dystonia contribute to it. Sufferers if that have an IQ about 11 points higher.

Also how related a population is, is a bit irrelevant. You could boost (or lower) the IQ of any group insanely through selective pressure. There's virtually a 2 SD difference between Jews and Western raised Africans.

For example, if I had two identical populations on separate islands with different conditions, I could make major differences in a thousand years.

Island A has a lot of unpreventable tropical diseases, but food is easy to get, the climate is never a threat to life. This population prioritises fast reproduction. Being clever here is zero advantage, and may actually hinder fast reproduction as big brained babies take longer to grow and are harder to birth (higher mortality).

Island B is a bitch. The weather can kill, food production only happens six months a year. People that can't forward plan or take care of themselves die young. This favours bigger brains, because the stupid people just don't have many surviving kids.

All this can happen in a very short span of time. Iceland is already seeing genes for intelligence being selected out by the welfare state. ISYN.

So the fact we are closely related to the Ashkenazi doesn't mean we'd be similar.

[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Iceland? Wouldn't their generous welfare state be dysgenic in that its allowing trashy plebs to reproduce in large numbers and live off the government tit?

[–]GConly 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yep. It's lowering their group IQ by about 0.03 per decade, IIRC.

[–]Nombre27 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

What if it's a mix of nature and nurture? The nature part being genetic inheritance from Europeans. The nurture part being the rabbinical studiousness of Judaism?

[–]cisheteroscumWhite Nationalist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

What if it's a mix of nature and nurture?

IQ is 80% heritable in Western countries

[–]Nombre27 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

20% is still a lot, wouldn't studiousness help explain that?

[–]president_camacho 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Before the 1940s or so most young US Jews still spoke Yiddish and barely spoke English.

You could probably say the same thing about early 20th century immigrants from Germany or Scandinavia that scored better than Jews of that era in intelligence tests.

tests on Jews are small in number in general because Jews are a fraction of the population

Actually there seems to be quite a bit of testing data on Israelis, and if I remember right earlier tests on Jews in the US from sources like Ellis Island and US Army intelligence tests, and none show particularly high scores. The issue is that the sample sizes used to make conclusions about high Jewish IQ in some books are absurdly small, like the often cited study of 59 from a Jewish private school used by people like Charles Murray. Generally speaking, the larger the sample size, the lower the IQ scores we see on the subject.

Israel is not full of Ashkenazis

1/3 of the country. That's a pretty significant amount, enough that one would expect Israeli average IQ to be significantly higher than it is if global Ashkenazi IQ was as high as some say.

2) Many so-called "Ashkenazis" are probably gentiles who tried to escape the soviet union

I have a hard time believing the most fanatical of Jews(Israelis) would get rolled like that by opportunistic Russian goys. I'm not saying it never happened at all, but the numbers are likely very small, although to be fair I suspect a lot of ashkenazi Jews worldwide have very little Semitic blood, and are primarily just whites that call themselves Jews.

There is no reason given for why this is implausible

Maybe not implausible so much as unlikely. Especially when were talking about a global population residing in isolation from each other for centuries in very different countries and circumstances being claimed to have uniformly developed higher IQ. I suspect there ARE pockets that did do this, but others that didnt at all.

1).We don't know for sure how much smarter Ashkenazi Jews are relative to White Gentiles (but we know they are at least somewhat smarter, 5-12 points, I say 110)

I say we dont KNOW this. There is some evidence that may be the case, and some that its not. Without large representative test samples from objective sources there's no way to know, and we dont really have those, but as pointed out the larger the samples the more average ashkenazi IQ seems to be.

2) And even the most generous assumptions on Ashkenazi IQ cannot explain their power

You don't need to make any allegations of fakery or whatever to show this. Their overrepresentation still has to be due to "something else" - and it's up to denialists to prove it isn't what it obviously is

I personally dont really care that much about the IQ issue, because most of the overrepresentation occurs in areas where it absolutely should not exist regardless. No one should ever tolerate such a tiny group completely dominating their media for such a long time regardless of how "smart" this group claims to be. That it has occurred explains a lot of the clownworld shit we see today.

In so far as it matters, if I had to place odds on what the reality is, I would say it's probable American Jews have a little higher average IQ, say around 107, owing exclusively to higher verbal IQ, with global ashkenazi IQ a little lower, BUT there were probably historically pockets of ashkenazis that were substantially higher. I also suspect ashkenazi IQ is decreasing in recent times due to numerous factors, including that the supposed selective pressures that gave rise to this alleged higher IQ havent been present in quite some time, and ashkenazis have increasingly intermarried with Sephardic and Mizrahi Jews.

I think IQ tests are primarily just good at testing your ability at taking IQ tests, and are more influenced by environment than many of their proponents claim, but that's a whole different discussion.