all 8 comments

[–]JuliusCaesar225Nationalist + Socialist 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Elite overproduction creates counter-elites, and counter-elites look for allies among the commoners. If commoners’ living standards slip—not relative to the elites, but relative to what they had before—they accept the overtures of the counter-elites and start oiling the axles of their tumbrels.

He like many continue to frame the issue as economics. An economic collapse would surely make things worse but that is not what is driving the decay. It wasn't a bunch of poor people who were rioting and destroying cities this summer, the radical left white youths are mostly middle class or above. It is rotten institutions and intellectual class who have created a warped value system that can only lead to chaos. In fact if we alleviated all economic issues and the middle class starting rising again the issues would get even worse because they are ideological driven. The worse the material conditions are in society the less likely it is to engage in the culture war that is driving modern society. We are not experiencing a class war right now. Social media is another often ignored issue that has transformed society and heightened political divisions, specifically the rise of twitter.

It is mass democracy+social media+corrupt elites and values that has got us here.

[–]Wrangel 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

An economic collapse would surely make things worse but that is not what is driving the decay

It could be that excess drives social collapse. When people have money they no longer need their family for support so they can stop getting married and having kids and instead explore sexual deviance. We live in a society with low risk of invasion which means that men don't have to be fit and we don't have to prepare for the next war. Too much food makes people fat.

I think Turchin needs to update his model. Too much wealth causes degeneration. Diversity causes ethnic divides. Different groups have different intelligence levels. His model doesn't account for that.

[–]Nombre27 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Still reading but reminds me of Asimov's Foundations character Seldon and his field of psychohistory.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Lol! He mentions that in the article.

[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The police state is quite strong, and the elites are united around a consensus. Only some type of great blow, be it economical or military can cause the system to collapse. It has to come from outside. The dollar falling from reserve status or a military defeat in the hands of Russia or China or a disastarous war with iran, those will be the trigger points

[–]Minedwe 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Needless to say I wholeheartedly agree with both taxing the elites and reducing immigration, but under neoliberalism that's simply unacceptable. As far as his take on higher education is concerned, it would certainly be a good beginning. We all know universities today are cosmopolitan indoctrination centers, and far too many people are attending them anyway.

Ideally, everyone would be more than eligible for college, but only select groups would need it (Doctors, engineers, etc.). Art degrees and other useless and often completely manufactured "fields" simply should not exist.

[–]PeddaKondappa 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The fact that so many American historians still believe in Fukuyama's "end of history" nonsense is beyond me.

Do they? Not even Fukuyama himself believes in his old thesis anymore. Reading some of Fukuyama's more recent work when I was 17, especially his Origins of Political Order, was actually my entry into alternative views on politics and sociology. For example, it was from Fukuyama that I was first exposed, as a teenager, to the idea that liberal individualism is fake and gay and that all early modern Western theorists including Hobbes, Locke, and Rousseau were fundamentally wrong.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do they?

The article claims they do.