all 25 comments

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

You're right and the dragon guy is retarded lmao. If you genetically modify a baby so his genes are literally white, despite being born to non-white parents, there's literally no argument that materialist/quantitative 'nationalists' can make against this baby's status as a white person. According to every kind of empirical test they will be proven to be white.

This is why materialism is cringe and obsession over race realism and all other post-enlightenment rationalist and empiricist stuff needs to just be left in the 19th century where it belongs.

[–]DragonerneJesus is white 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

If you genetically modify a baby so his genes are literally white

"Some black parents might go to the clinic and change their babies' genes to white skin color, blond hair, blue eyes"
He will still be african. A few genes out of tens of thousands means nothing.

If they genetically altered him to be racially white, then yes he would be white and what's the problem?

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

If they genetically altered him to be racially white, then yes he would be white and what's the problem?

That he would only quantitatively be white, he would have absolutely no connection to Europe whatsoever though.

[–]DragonerneJesus is white 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Why wouldn't he have any connection to Europe? That's where his people is from and where his people has lived for tens of thousands of years.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

What? The example is literally an African who is genetically modified to artificially be European. Therefore he has absolutely ZERO connection to Europe, he simply is a product of technology making his properties identical to ours despite having nothing to do with us.

[–]DragonerneJesus is white 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

How is he an african if he is european?

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

because his parents and entire ancestry going back forever are african whilst his altered to be european dna is just the result of technology

[–]DragonerneJesus is white 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

His biological parents and his biological ancestry aren't africans.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

you're retarded man. the child is born of 2 african parents, but they've paid some labcoats to genetically modify the baby's genetics so it is identical to a white person.

of course his ancestry are still africans, he just isn't genetically related to them, he's essentially just a robot or clone of a european who has no connection to either his african parents or the european people he is a parody of

[–]DragonerneJesus is white 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If it's identical to a white person, then ...

[–]AFutureConcern 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Your argument is actually more general. According to any utilitarian model, no matter what you desire, it will eventually be available in a synthesized form through the acceleration of techno-capital. Say you want your people to be happy; the future will provide brain implants and drugs without side-effects. Say you want to eliminate poverty; the future will eliminate scarcity of food and shelter. What the future will not do is preserve any tradition or meaning whatsoever. The bonds that tie family, nation and race will be dissolved, and the foundations of tradition will be evicted, by high-energy techno-capital.

The only thing that works against this is a dedication to tradition itself; to blood and soil - a direct repudiation of "progress" itself and an assertion of our bio-spirit.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yes. The struggle is Identity/Tradition vs (Techno)Capital. Always has been.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

If you genetically modify a baby so his genes are literally white, despite being born to non-white parents, there's literally no argument that materialist/quantitative 'nationalists' can make against this baby's status as a white person.

So what is your counter argument?

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

That materialism is gay, breaking things down to their properties and having that determine the essence of things is not how people of the right have ever operated.

Even though this baby 'scientifically' has the exact same genes as us it doesn't mean he is part of our organic Culture-Civilisation. He is just a technological abomination no different to those freaks who get a bunch of weird plastic surgery, piercings and tattoos over their entire bodies. There's nothing organic about this person and there's no relation or connection to Europe despite physical properties and appearances.

[–]marc_gee 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Race realists say genes are the biggest connection to our people. Therefore, if it were 100% white genetics it would be white. All other factors of culture are downstream from racial genetics and can be altered without science.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly which is why this view is absurd. There's no real connection or continuity, our race is our kin. We have familial bonds, clans etc all for thousands of years. We are not simply the sum of quantifiable genes, we are an organic people that have connection to each other.

A lab-grown clone or a genetically modified human that shares 100% of our genetic traits but has no organic connection to us is an outsider. The individualist, liberal, empiricist view is just as bad as IQ nationalism. To be part of our race you must be born of our race, genetically modified strangers, clones and whatever else are not part of the organism.

[–]DragonerneJesus is white 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Bad take.

White skin =/= white.
You can have dark skin, dark eyes, dark hair and be white.
Phenotype is just one aspect of our genome.
White skin is a recent adaptation.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]DragonerneJesus is white 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Race is a purely genetic one. 100% genetics.

    [–]WaltzRoommate 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

    Statistical nationalism doesn't exist.

    Things like IQ and crime stats are to explain inequalities, not to form the basis on nationalism.

    [–][deleted]  (7 children)

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      [–]WaltzRoommate 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

      You didn't make an argument against genetic nationalism though. You only critiqued white nationalism.

      [–][deleted]  (5 children)

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        [–]WaltzRoommate 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

        My argument is, that basing your idea of nationalism purely on genetics is a dead-end. In a few decades from now, gene editing will make white genes a product that you can buy.

        Well first, I'm extremely skeptical of this. Second, if they have the white genetics then what's the problem? They'd be indistinguishable from white people in terms of their group preferences, personalities, appearance, and identifications. Thirdly though, I repeat that I am very skeptical of this.

        Genetic nationalism will cease to exist in the year 2070 or so.

        Why would gene editing end genetic nationalism? People would still want to live amongst those with similar genetics.

        but literally everyone can become white and thus the idea of a white race loses its meaning.

        It doesn't lose its meaning. It just becomes accessible. Edited whites would be functionally the same as non-edited whites.

        This concept should also include other factors like historical connection to our land and people, culture, etc.

        Historically, this hasn't been necessary. When America was founded, white people immigrated here and took on white American history as their own. A german who's family came here in the 50s will say "We won WWII".

        [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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          [–]WaltzRoommate 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

          Whether it is 50 years from now or 250, where is the difference? The first genetically modified baby was already born in China. Sure, only one gene was changed, but the first computer also could only do some basic calculations.

          I'm not convinced that it'll ever happen. A genetically modified baby doesn't imply that we'll figure something out this complicated, especially with structural issues that pose an existential threat to all the most scientifically productive nations in the world.

          I doubt this. If some guy is born to black parents (but got modified to he genetically white) in Congo and lives there for 25 years until he decides to go to the US, will this guy just behave like the Americans? Sure, his chances to assimilate are higher, than if he was genetically black, but higher chances is not the same as guaranteed.

          If his genes are white, then he'd be like any white immigrant from Africa. I've never met a white immigrant from the Congo, but I've met Afrikaners and I have no problems with them coming in.

          Even if everyone would assimilate, do you really want to have a country, where 90% of all people are foreigners, that just happen to share most of their genes with you?

          What you're describing is what we've have in a pan-European ethnostate. It's also what my experience would be if I moved to a foreign white nation like Norway or Hungary, both of which would be phenomenal if they were options for me. I see no issue here.

          Here in my homeland many people ask me, whether I have a Swedish background, because I look like the Golden One (with fewer muscles). If I moved to Sweden, I would still always be a foreigner. Not only does my name identify me as a foreigner, but everyone also knew that I am from a different country. Especially I myself knew, that I am not from Sweden and hence can never become a "full Swede".

          They'd act a bit different, but I wouldn't have a problem with it. I dated a fresh off the boat Ukrainian immigrant in undergrad and while her mannerisms were a little bit different, she was still just a good white girl. Her thick accent and modesty didn't really pose issues and I didn't feel like the gap was as wide as if I'd gone to date an American-born Asian or African girl.

          Where is the difference to civic nationalism? Everyone can become a national by sharing our ideas and values in the civnat worldview. You want him to share your genes, but the basic idea is still that everyone can become part of our nation (if he fits some criteria, that is not connected to ancestry). I believe a nation is an organism, that has grown over centuries and even millennia.

          The problem with civic nationalism is not that people could join. It's (a) that similarity of ideology, values, and personality is alienating to people like us who do not accept 21st century American cultural norms and (b) that since we have no practical way of testing for similarity of ideology, values, and personality, we wind up with vastly different and diverse sets of people who hate us. In a science-fiction society where we had some brainscan that could tell us if someone was sufficiently similar in their ideology, values, and personality and would remain that way, then civic nationalism would be functionally identical to genetic nationalism.

          I personally know some Germans living in Canada, that came there in the late 1940s. They do not claim to have won the war. No, they will talk about the horrible crimes by soviet solders. Sure, there might be some. But once again, some are not all. I personally doubt, that anyone honestly believes to have won the war, even though he was a German, but ok maybe there are some.

          I think you're just lying tbh. Even Germans in Germany don't talk this way. Germans in Germany will talk about losing the war, but they will not be anti-Russian about it. They'll speak thankfully about the allies who beat them.

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

          [deleted]

            [–]WaltzRoommate 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

            Afrikaners are culturally Dutch (with some extras). This is hardly comparable to Congolese culture.

            Afrikaners have had a very long time to develop their own culture, much like Anglo-Americans are no longer truly English culture. Congolese white people would obviously not truly assimilate to Congolese blacks though and would come off as white people.

            Sure, the differences are clearly smaller than dating some American-born Asian or African girl. I was just talking about this "little bit different".

            It didn't cause issues though. A little bit of difference is fine.

            That does make sense.

            Assuming you are not trolling

            Not an argument. Make an argument or GTFO.

            You will hardly find anyone saying Stalin was great and especially not in the older generation, that actually lived in the 1940s.

            Nobody says Stalin was great, but Germans do not defensively bring him up when Nazis are brought up.

            Do you seriously claim, that no one (or at maximum a few) Germans, that lived in the eastern territories, is sad to have lost his home? Assuming you agree with me, that they are unhappy about this, do you believe they, at least partially, blame it on the Soviets and their puppets in Czechia and Poland?

            I've never met a German with something to say on the matter. However, ethnic Germans that I know have assimilated into America and say that "We" won the war and Germans in Germany are glad that they lost.

            [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

            Genetics and similar phenotype are essential fault lines of nationalism but it doesn't mean the other fault lines are not also key components necessary for nationalism. Language, religion, culture, shared values, shared history, belief in foundational national myths, shared understanding of important moments of the nation's history are important for crafting a sustainable national identity.

            Nationalism is both materialistic and idealistic because genetics and shared ideals are important aspects of a nation. If a mimic could be created, it is very likely new criteria would be necessary for confirming ancestry like genealogies. Race is too granular for a nation anyway, I think White nationalism just means European ethnic in his homeland fighting for self-determination.