Began as comment about banning users, but buffed up here instead

submitted by Marginotions from self.debatealtright

intended source DAR post

DoubleReverse: For what, not being alt right? If you just want to listen to your own opinions use a tape recorder.
antireddit: Just out of curiosity, what's your reason for coming to this sub?
DoubleReverse: I like to explore your mentality

me (Marginotions) At least DR admits to being outsider, but interfering with your enemy camp is not a moral position, it's aggressive meddling, and that's a clearly Judasic trait.
Exploration is a purely passive activity. Look and exit silently. Once you begin to probe, you're being aggressive, and Libertarians are morally obligated to defend themselves. Home should not be a battlefield. So the "debate" part of this sub's name makes me wonder, where is the altright community on saidit?

Five Stars to u/antireddit, see longish comment (first up at bottom of queue). This comment is so good, I'd like to see it appear as a post somewhere, maybe expanded a bit because antireddit has got an excellent grip on the JQ. Seeya again later, a-r.

source How Safe video

probgoingtohell
We don't need this shit in our movement. Vaccines work and are effective. Get over it.
Marginotions[S]

probgoingtohell
Probability confirmed. You're there.

me: probgoingtohell is wearing cloak of DAR identity, not deserved. I'm an immigrant from reddit, still participating, and reddit's DAR generally approves of my anti-vaccine position, so claiming that it's "shit" is a false assumption. My view is that altright is basically anti-authority; mandatory vaccines are totally totalitarian. If they're so great, let the gullible take them, assume their following "cloak of safety", and let others take their chances with fate.

me (reply to u/Tuisto): I don't give a sheet what normies perceive, I'm here to share with fellow travelers... That's what it means to socially participate in an ethnostate. You are comfortable in your home territory without irritating interlocutors jabbing you. The altright position is a complexity, and in this territory, there is plenty of exploration room, see rhizome philosophy, in which cooperation is important, even if the participants are different species.

This essay was begun as a comment, but now I'm going to postit note.

Afterthought: assumption altright is anti-authority, that should be qualified to mean anti-present-authority; but some here may be supremacy advocates if they can be in the authority camp themselves. I'm not there, dominance is outside my moral position.

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[–]antireddit 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

antireddit has got an excellent grip on the JQ.

Honestly I dont, I dont think anybody does. There are many unknowns. I'm honestly sick of the issue, but every time I just say fuck it I dont care anymore and have no influence anyway, something happens, for instance Jewish owned and run Facebook declaring any mention of Jews controlling the media will result in a ban. I mean that'll surely put to rest the notion Jews do control it!! The brazenness just increases almost daily. There is a very real concern that at some point in the near future they will control virtually all means of mass communication in the west, and most of the world. We're almost there.

There's a few things I do know. They possess WAY too much media power for such a small group. No one should be comfortable with this, be they left wing, right wing, black, white, Asian, Muslim, Christian, Hindu or atheist etc. Nobody. The possibility for abuse is endless, even if there were no evidence of it, of which there is mountains. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I have no idea what percentage of Jews are truly anti white, or Jewish supremacists. It may be a small minority, who knows, but I dont think there's any doubt some of the most powerful ones are both, and this group alone can do an incredible amount of harm. The fact no Jews ever call them out means a majority are at least passively in agreement with their actions, which is why its hard to just treat these bad actors as individuals and ignore the Jewish component.

The problem is its not ALL of them. I dont hate Jews individually and I dont think anyone else should. They dont deserve to be hated or ridiculed because of the actions of some of them. I dont know what the answer is. Ideally people would be informed of how much power they have and use pressure tactics like boycotts and social shaming to reduce it to levels that arent so potentially destructive, but because of The Holocaust victim industry and their media and lobbying power its almost impossible for this to occur.

[–]Marginotions[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

no Jews ever call them out

This is not true, but the Jewish-dissent population IS nearly zero.

OK, antireddit, it looks like we are in about 98% agreement, but I may have been on the case longer than you. Since you are "sick" of it, (with good reason, it's a sick and depressing story), I won't burden you more, but will be following your moves and maybe do more contacts, with mercifully gentle respect of your Judasic illness. For me the same illness has produced symptom 'fear' and fear is the greatest motivator.

[–][deleted]  (16 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Marginotions[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

    How much authority is too much?

    Background: I have over 5 yrs active posting on reddit. I'm Libertarian mostly but the mainstream Liberts have departed from roots and joined the open/no borders Judaslibs. I'm with the Trumpers on need for barriers at borders.

    Long story short, I align best with Murray Thorbard and Larkin Rose: government/state is a religion we can do without.

    Since I was invited to reddit's DAR by u/cisheteroscum, I figured saidit's version would be about the same. So I'm here enduring the debaters causing headaches for me since there is nothing on saidit that more exactly suits my preferences.

    edit Aug.26.2020 "nothing on saidit that more exactly suits my preferences", so I have moved to s/fringe which aligns better because like me, it's marginal, and has been abandoned, with most recent posts before me a year old. So until something interferes, marginalia is the new fringe; visitors welcome.

    [–]cisheteroscumWhite Nationalist 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

    I'm Libertarian mostly but the mainstream Liberts have departed from roots and joined the open/no borders Judaslibs.

    "nothing on saidit that more exactly suits my preferences", so I have moved to s/fringe

    But that's exactly the problem I see with your very nuanced libertarian, anti-Jewish worldview: you're alone. There is no one else but us. I used to be a libertarian before I came to AR (or "dissident right", whatever). Now that I've learned about IQ and peoples' sociopolitical behavior I've come to realize full-on libertarianism is a pipe dream and will never come to pass.

    Without debating the last point, regardless, the only population that can reliably support libertarianism are whites. So you need to appeal to them directly, because blacks/browns/asians cannot be relied upon to be persuaded to join you. On top of that, you are aware and critical of the Jewish power structure. These two facts puts you squarely in our camp, whether you like it or not. The libertarian/authoritarian disagreements are just trivial or irrelevant to our current situation

    [–]Marginotions[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    As always, CHS, I appreciate your, um, friendly demeanor? As you may have noticed my departure from DAR is not permanent like I thought it was. Just today I posted a Paul Roberts piece because it's just right for this right.

    Readers here don't like my writing style, but said post was entirely composed by Roberts. I also defer from DAR in that they are firmly supremacist, and I'm opposed. Dominance is too much like the Judasots, a pain for everyone but those in the ruling class.

    So if I chance upon some other tidy bits that suit DAR well, I may continue, otherwise, I'm staying away except to look. Today I found a small sub https://saidit.net/s/AltRight, maybe that is something to look in 2.

    [–]cisheteroscumWhite Nationalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    Ha - it's meant to be friendly, at least

    No I noticed that post and remembered you had tagged me in a comment. I didn't think you were leaving permanently or anything, I was just making a general statement on your views as I see them

    I also defer from DAR in that they are firmly supremacist, and I'm opposed.

    On the one hand I respect your ideological commitment but on the other hand I just don't agree with that assessment. Most Alt-Righters reject the trope of "supremacist" or any kind of imperialism

    [–]Marginotions[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    trope of "supremacist" assessment

    I learned about this recently in a PragerU video, which I discuss here.

    After thinking about this more, I notice the dominance theme in other AltRight attitudes as well eg. alt-religion.

    Here is a simple analogy about dominance: Domination: shadow model vs strangle model

    Most Alt-Righters reject the trope of "supremacist" or any kind of imperialism

    That may be, but they are deluding themselves. It's called "in denial".

    [–]cisheteroscumWhite Nationalist 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    I find your explanations to be overly-complicated and your analogies confusing here. To be racially supremacist/dominant just means to control other races either through totalitarian militant means or perhaps indirect socioeconomic influence (i.e. like Jews do today). Most of the Alt-Right will outright say they do not want to do this and just want a space for whites. It is that simple

    [–]Marginotions[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    just want a space for whites. It is that simple

    If only the reality was so simple. Ethnic purity is beautiful. Discrimination, Segregation, these are not supremacy because once your THEM opponents are out of the picture, your basic US can live in peace while THEM do their own thing. If US has the arete, the virtue to thrive, one might hope and expect US to grow tall enough to overshadow THEM.

    Have a look at my recent post Downside of Diversity, for a sociological study on what happens in societies with too many outsiders.

    [–][deleted]  (8 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]Marginotions[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

      rejects the property rights of the tax payers

      Taxation is Tribute (some force defeated the people, who are threatened with extortion (aka tax) or expect a greater defeat.)

      Thorbard is my rearrangement of Rothbard, who is Jewish ethnicity, while I'm a severe Judaphobe. Rose I know mostly from his book Most Dangerous Superstition.

      Hans-Hermann Hoppe?

      Will need to dig into it, "I'll be back."

      I'll see your call, and up-ante with the following...

      Freedom vs. Force - The Individual and the State 13 min | acdmyIDas

      presentation proceeds on a classic logical proof approach: assume the opposite and prove its more easily perceived disgrace, whereupon QED, evidence is quotations from notable sources.

      side issue conviction (having some strange variations, such as being of favorable moral character, or having committed a crime, being of unfavorable, immoral character)

      Makes the cogent point that size of central government is important to the augmentation of common anguish at its edicts. Smaller evil is less evil. (See Breakdown of Nations L Kohr)

      I just saw this video, liked it.

      [–][deleted]  (6 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]Marginotions[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

        this your comment to the video

        Yes. My position pretty close to agreement. For academic debate purpose I'll just say go ahead, Tuisto, and like government, I don't care.

        Thorbard argues that government services would be provided better by private enterprise. In most simple description, person buys insurance, which hires security. All government operations are executed by competitive professionals regulated by demand, not statutes, certifications, permits, etc. There were some good points in the video your critique skipped. Clever you, picked at the weakest stuff first. (wink)

        No time yet to investigate Hoppe. (I'm tempted to think of jokes to make like HOPPer, OPPA, etc.)

        https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Breakdown+of+Nations+L+Kohr&t=hk&ia=web book is available as pdf, free-download, and summaries exist too

        [–][deleted]  (4 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]Marginotions[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

          I see you are studied in non-atomized individual, which is a thing. Will look into it more depth. Next, skip, jump, and Hoppe to...

          Quick study of Hans Herman-Hoppe

          However, the majority of Hoppe's colleagues surveyed by Liberty[25] rejected his theory. In his response, Hoppe derided his critics as "utilitarians".26

          In my studies, I've 'identified' the concept of utilitarianism to be equivalent to the "greater-good' argument, which is in my view, a fallacy. Why? Among other things, this is a tenet of the Jews, see Tikkun olam... good is what's good for the Jews, and (m)uck the Goyim... all things bad for them is good too. There is no universal morality, so the non-violent solution is DISCRIMINATION followed by SEGREGATION.
          "the libertarian philosophy would support the rights of both groups to act in such manners" (LoL, OK, but not in the same covenant territory, kick em out and where ever they land, let 'em be.)
          " in addition to "superior (above-average) intellectual performance and character structure as well as a compatible system of values".[46]" This quote amounts to a tl;dr of my thesis Social Virtue, etc..

          Hoppe is definitely worth more study, thnx for the heads-up, Tuisto. Over on reddit I have a series titled Our World According to ___ where ___ is filled by persons and sometimes orgs. Hoppe is for sure going to join them, and probably some other studies besides.

          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]Marginotions[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

            I'm fairly sure you can read stuff on reddit without account. Just can't vote or comment without one. Quite often web searches show reddit posts on first page, so the internet community considers it a legit source, and much of it is.

            [–]DoubleReverse 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

            Exploration is a purely passive activity. Look and exit silently.

            On the contrary. Taking what you say at face value would give me only a superficial and deliberately sculpted idea of your mentality. Let's not pretend you guys are exactly honest with outsiders. Exposing the inconsistencies in your arguments while picking out the consistent threads paints a much less manufactured picture of your actual priorities.

            [–]Marginotions[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

            Contrary to your contrary, examples of exploration to demonstrate my point... space exploration is mostly looking, some probes landed and looked, moved around, dug some small holes, etc. In age of exploration, the explorers themselves only gathered information, collected some samples. It was the colonizers and conquistadores who made more intrusive interferences. Intervention of explorers is minuscule. To do that in a polite way, just ask questions; go beyond that and you are an aggressive attacker.

            Afterthought: Another way to pose a question is to offer your own contrasting case and ask why not this?

            [–]DoubleReverse 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

            I'm not really interfering with you though, am I? I'm not surveying a rabbit warren, I'm interacting with an ideology. An important part of that is how it reacts to scrutiny.

            [–]antireddit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

            On the contrary. Taking what you say at face value would give me only a superficial and deliberately sculpted idea of your mentality. Let's not pretend you guys are exactly honest with outsiders.

            What I've come to admire about the alt right is their honesty. They arent trying to convince you of something they themselves dont believe. This is what separates them from the woke left. To understand what modern day SJW lefties really believe to be true, you have to chisel through layers and layers of bullshit, and you probably wont ever reach whats beneath. The Alt right say what they mean and mean what they say, at least in comparison to others.

            So what exactly do you believe the alt right is not honest about with outsiders?

            [–]DoubleReverse 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

            I always see you guys do things like changing the subject to ignore inconvenient information, deliberately misrepresenting circumstances to make yourself look like a victim and your target look oppressive, pretending whiteness is determined by something other than skin color, starting your sentences with "I'm not alt right but", pretending not to understand concepts like bigotry or persecution, claiming not to hate minorities while blaming them for every problem you can think of, pretending the alt right just opposes immigration and doesn't advocate racial persecution, so on and so forth.

            "But the left/the jews/black people do it worse!"

            [–]antireddit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

            Aside from one or two things, none of these are even remotely unique to the alt right, and far worse examples can be found on the left of every one of these things.

            "But the left/the jews/black people do it worse!"

            You constantly act like this is some unimportant point. It's not. You cant act like the alt right acts in a vaccuum, or act like its 1988. The alt right was spawned in response to the excesses of the left, to the "left/jews/blacks" aggressive hostility towards whites. You cant separate those actions from the alt right. The alt right have proven that you can dish it out but you cant take it.

            pretending whiteness is determined by something other than skin color

            There are these things known as biology and genetics, you might have heard of them. They prove that its not just skin color. Forensic anthropologists can determine someone's race simply by examining their bones, tissue, organs, or by DNA analysis. You can play word games and call it something other than race, but whatever you choose to call it, it still exists. In addition to ancestry, whites have a shared history and culture. You cannot simply wipe out someone elses ethnicity because its in your own ethnic selt interest to do so. Native Americans had different tribes with different languages and customs, that doesnt mean Native Americans dont exist.

            The alt right isnt your problem though. It's just the canary in the coal mine. Your real concern(from a liberal Jewish globalist perspective) should be the coming white backlash to these escalating anti white excesses. Censorship and deplatforming only accomplishes one thing. It ensures that you wont see this freight train coming down the tunnel until the light is in your face a second before it smashes into you. The alt right will likely play little to no role in this. It will be driven by the characteristic lack of restraint of the Jewish elite that are overplaying their hand. They went from slowly turning up the water in order to boil the frogs alive before they noticed, to trying to use a flame thrower to kill them. You guys done fucked up. There are still way too many frogs around for you to burn us all. Too many will hop away, and they are going to be pretty fucking pissed at what you tried to do to them.

            Dont get me wrong, itll get worse for whites before it gets better. A LOT worse. But this country is heading off a cliff economically and socially. The current situation isnt sustainable. Im not an accelerationist and would prefer to avoid all this, but the Coronavirus and the liberal elite have all but ensured it now. If nothing else the US will serve as a warning sign for Europe.

            [–]Marginotions[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

            Honestly, DR, I don't know why you were called out in previous, beyond your comment there.

            I did have some experience with u/probgoingtohell.

            I have a fairly 'tough skin' in collision encounters, and as far as I'm concerned you are welcome to continue stirring the debate at altright, if you observe the niceties of common courtesy. My view is that racism, discrimination, hate, etc. are all ok if done with a civil demeanor, not meaner.