Laura Towler Vs Rikki Doolan - CivNat just Embarrassed himself.

submitted by VarangianRasputin from self.debatealtright

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[–]frodo-baggins 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

PA = patriotic alternative.

The fact that Collett allegedly praised a certain 20th century German. Im sure its a bullshit accusation but we can already see the slander theyre going to blast day and night if PA gets any kind of traction.

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

I'm sure they'd treat him with kid gloves if he hadn't praised that leader.

Honestly what do you think is ever going to happen with Nationalists? That if they all are as clean as Jared Taylor and as presentable the media won't call them names and will be fair?

The press is going to say terrible things about us no matter what. Learn to live with that.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

They call libertarian zionists like Sargon and Farage neonazi terrorists that want to rape and murder every human on the planet. Optics cucks are ridiculously stupid, I honestly can't fathom how they manage to string together grammatically correct sentences.

[–]frodo-baggins 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

The question is what normies think, not what the media thinks. The media will slander us no matter what- what we have to do is make them slander us for things that expose them as anti-White.

That's why "It's OK To Be White" was such a genius campaign.

If normies see someone praising Hitler they will turn their brain off and disregard anything else that person says. Optics matter- we just have to direct our optics to normies rather than to the media.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

ok you do your psychopathic masking your beliefs stuff in the hopes that you can trick Big Normie into following you because they think you're kind or something and we'll do honest nationalism

[–]frodo-baggins 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

My belief isnt that the Nazis are great, my belief is that White people have a right to exist. There is nothing to mask.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

ah ok i see, you dont actually have any ideas you think you will just magically gain power by being 'pro-white'. well good luck.

[–]frodo-baggins 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

That will be a lot better than being pro Nazi. You don't have to be a Nazi to care about the fate of your people. I do not support the Nazis but I think we have a right to a homeland. I also think the most ideal way to achieve that is a White ethnostate. All of that is peaceful, and we can treat minorities exceptionally well with subsidies and payments to leave that territory- not ghettos and camps.

If you poll "do you think White people have a right to exist" and "do you like Nazis" among the general public, which do you think will perform better? If you're trying to gain support for the movement, which one do you want to campaign on?

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

This is all just substanceless though, do you really think you're going to gain power by saying this?

What are you actually going to do in terms of economics? Culture? City planning? Health mental and physical? Education? State ideology/worldview? Who are your political enemies? Organisational strategy? etc ad infinitum. Once you get down to actually becoming serious rather than being a meme 'pro-white good, anti-white bad' without actually articulating anything concrete beyond this axiom you find that you ARE a 'nazi', otherwise you're not actually opposing the system in any meaningful manner.

I have actually seriously considered every realm of politics, organisation, society and culture. The holistic nationalism that is orientated to have a pro-social and pro-white perspective on every question is just an updated to 21st century form National Socialism, there's no 2 ways about it.

Where do you think you diverge from NS in philosophy, policy or strategy; and why do you think that your position is more popular than the NS position would be?

[–]frodo-baggins 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Is Viktor Orban a Nazi in your opinion? What about America in the 1940s and 1950s? What about Japan today?

I have far more in common with those. I would much rather hold up Hungary, Japan, and America's past as examples to aspire to. They are much better examples to aspire to in any case.

Economics: Tariffs and immigration restriction.

Culture: Pull government funding for academic institutions (or any other institutions, for that matter) that push anti-White narratives, "gender studies", and so on.

City planning: Allow people to voluntarily form communities such as Orania if they wish to do so. This right would apply for every race, not just White people. It would also be completely voluntary- nothing mandatory. Repeal AFFH and 1968 FHA.

Mental and physical health: Not much the government can do. What would you do?

Education: See culture.

State: White ethnostate, ideally. That doesn't mean no minorities, we have to treat everyone well within our borders. But we can give people subsidies to leave, and we can restrict new immigrants to White people of good character.

Political enemies: Civnats, neocons, left wingers. Multinational corporations importing cheap labor. The rootless cosmopolitan elite.

I diverge from NS:

-I don't think of Israel, or Jews as a whole, as the enemy. I don't deny the phenomenon of "fellow Whites" not being White, but many of those Jews have forsaken Israel and are openly pro-Palestine. Netanyahu is not their guy. The "rootless cosmopolitan elite" includes a disproportionate number of Jews, but many of them are also White or another race entirely.

-Everyone has rights. We should subsidize the emigration of non-Whites, including Jews, but we should not be putting them in camps, killing them, or violating their rights in any other way.

-I believe in free speech. Censorship is bad even if our side does it.

-Most importantly, I think the Holocaust, as well as the other genocides committed, happened. I also think they were terrible atrocities that should not be repeated.

Democratic socialists in America don't go around praising the Soviet Union or Cuba. Maybe a few wackos do, but the majority of them stay optical. Why shouldn't we do the same?

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't choose what I believe is true based on polling the public and yes being actively pro-White is every bit as odious to the average 'normie' you seem desperate to court as being pro-Nazi. If I had any advice it would be stop patrolling the optics in the group and figure out how to change the normies mind on those things.

You're not going to change my mind on anything so you're kind of stuck if you want to be part of a political movement that doesn't have at least some sympathy for Nazi Germany.

Also if anyone in the media got a hold of your views as stated in this thread they'd call you, among other things, a White Nationalist or a White Suporemacist. Now do you honestly think that these normies you're trying to court would have any less of a negative reaction to those terms than they would to someone described as a Nazi?

I'll repeat myself: We all need to focus on trying to change that reality not finding some non-existent sweet spot of dissident right thought that will convince the eternal normie. It doesn't exist and even if it did the press would just lie to the normie and call you the bad name anyway. Step over that hurdle and stop accepting the frame of your enemy. That's what conservatives do. Are they 'winning' yet? They have fantastic optics most of the time but they seem to get humiliated time and time again and lose everything important.

If you want to be a conservative then go join TPUSA or something. You'll never have a problem with bad optics again.

[–]WhiteZealotWhite Nationalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

White people have a right to exist

But this is false. Rights don't exist.

[–]frodo-baggins 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Bitch what