On the character of Hitler

submitted by [deleted] from (self.debatealtright)

I've been watching some of his speeches, reading quotes from him etc, and the impression I get from Hitler is that of an earnest man who loves his people more than anything. He genuinely wanted to free Germany from the destitution wrought upon her by international finance and his invasion of Poland was out of genuine concern for the ethnic Germans being abused in that country.

I'd like to develop a more nuanced perspective so if people could contribute more detailed and evidence-based assessments of Hitler as a person I'd be grateful.

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[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 17 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Just read memoirs about him. The Young Hitler I Knew (some excerpts here) is particularly good, written by his friend who lived with him for a long time. Hitler continued sending birthday presents and such to his family while in power.

Pretty much all of them paint a very similar picture of him except for the one written by Otto Strasser which was intentionally meant to be disparaging.

[–]VarangianRasputin 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I'm actually reading Hitler and I right now. Strasser actually goes as far to claim that Hitler was never shot during the Beer Hall Putsch, providing just his word.

[–]asterias 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Otto Strasser barely escaped Hitler while his brother was murdered. It would be difficult for him to remain neutral.

[–]Richard_Parker 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (27 children)

Eh, I am rather adverse to Hitler. But not the way Abraham Foxman and friends want me to be, but the way many of Germany's best generals were. Read Manstein's memoirs, Guderian's memoirs. David Frasier's biography on Rommel is also interesting. Hitler lost the war that Germany had won, and he showed callus disregard for the lives of his own people. He also favored absolute barbarity against gentile Poles and Russians. I still think Churchill, Roosevelt, and Stalin were worse....

[–]SoylentCapitalist 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (20 children)

Hitler lost the war that Germany had won

I wouldn't go as far to say they would have won even without Hitler's military blunders. Even if after they pushed passed Moscow, the Soviets would of kept fighting. Germany would have long run out of resources when the industrial power of the US presented itself in Europe.

[–]Richard_Parker 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

Hitler declared war on the United States. Doubt the Wehrmacht High Command would have invaded the Soviet Union before resolving the war with Britain first.

[–]SoylentCapitalist 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

It was my understanding that Japan forced Hitler to declare on the US as Japan was part of the Axis.

[–]oneinchterror 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Correct. Which is why Japan was baited by the US administration into attacking the US.

[–]Richard_Parker 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Another strike against him, as he was duped by the Nips, thinking he would could mutual cooperation re the USSR....

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

It's not a strike because it's not true. Irving goes over this in detail in Hitler's War. The US Navy was up to all sorts of dirty tricks in the Atlantic and the German navy needed the declaration of war so they could retaliate.

[–]Richard_Parker 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I know very well what the USN was up to. It was still insane to declare war on the US while knee deep in shit just outside Mosocw.

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Those soldiers 'knee deep in shit' needed the supplies the US was helping to impede Germany from providing them. It's so easy to sit back decades later -- or be a German general and write memoirs that are self serving and flattering which blame others which they all do -- and be the perfect warlord but it always seems hollow to me.

[–]Richard_Parker 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Sigh. This is becoming annoying because the proof is in the pudding. Germany lost the war in disastrous fashion, despite being endowed with the very paragon of military discipline and prowess, a most lethal instrument.

Concerning the declaration of war against the United States, I do not submit it is entirely without reason, but strategically suicidal.

I will leave with you a tip from Abraham Lincoln. The United States seized the RMS Trent and arrested four confederate delegates., The British were outraged and began ratting sabres, in the context of dicey relations from the War of Independence and the War of 1812. Lincoln made the choice not to press, released the emissaries and issued a formal apology to Great Britian, because he understood the United States could not possibly beat both the Confederacy AND Britain. When Lincoln made this decision however reluctantly, he said to his cabinet "One war at at a time, gentleman."

It is somewhat inapposite as there was probably never a diplomatic solution with the United States, but this is espeially so once Germany was overextended with the war against Britain AND the Soviet Union. It was foolhardy to declare war on the Soviet Union, but I will grant part of that is hindsight when you consider the purge of officers, how they were trounced by the Finns, experience from World War I. On the other hand, German strategic theory had always fretted over the dangers of a two (or three) front war. Should have at least taken care to seize the Suez canal THEN take on the Soviet Union.

The bottom line is that it was mathematically impossible for Germany to win once they declared war on the United States, especially after the Wehrmacht failed to take Moscow.

Finally, I will mention again Hitler's own tyranny against the German people (and I do not mean communists etc). That Chapter by Manstein concerning the callus disregard for the lives of his own men cannot be refuted or gainsaid. Also watch Der Untergang if you need to be reminded he fucked up.

To make sure I am not misunderstood, i will paraphrase a comment attributed to Guderian while in allied captivity (one I am still looking to corraborate). The problem was never of ideology. As ideology, national socialism is sound. The problem was of leadership. I understand and agree with the reasons why the Germans followed Hitler. And they had no way of knowing what an imperfect leader he would be. But we do know that and, in trying to reclaim those tenets of national socialism that bear promise to save Europe and the West, we have to acknowledge what a disaster he was from a national socialist or dissident right perspective.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

USA could have been germany's ally. But they chose Japan. American Nazis chose Smedley Butler and he betrayed them. Imaigne if that didn't happen. Maybe USA and Japan could have come to an agreement on territories. Germany chose Hitler as their Smedley style figurehead. He didn't betray them but he was nuts and attacked a bunch of countries. It was mathematically impossible from the start. This all began after the first World War. It was also mathamatically impossible to pay back those reparations and that forced germany into a "fuck it let's go for broke" situation where you don't care about mathamatical odds because you're in fight or flight mode and your backs to the wall. Since then they took over Europe again through the European Union and I think another war is brewing.

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Hitler reluctantly declared war against his instincts because his naval command had begged him to because the US navy was all but a combatant against Germany at that stage.

[–]Richard_Parker 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I am well aware of that. Still insane.

[–]lithre 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Don't forget the atomic bomb was originally designed for Germany.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Tim Kelly Just had James Hoffman on Our Interesting Times. Hoffman wrote a book called Adolf Hitler: Enemy of the German People. It's a critique of Hitler from the right so you might be interested in it. I haven't read the book yet though but Hoffman is respected revisionist historian and he use to interview David Irving a lot when Irving was getting a lot of attacks from media.

Links to the interview are in the description of this youtube video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APGMLwy28N0&t=4s

[–]Richard_Parker 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I am definitely checking that out. Not sure why I am receiving so much pushback on Uncle Addie.

[–]SailorAground 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

While Hitler had many great qualities and ideas, he also had many bad ones. It's the concept that great men also have great flaws. Hitler was prone to prejudices and grudges (many great men are) and seems to have placed too much trust in members of his inner circle. I attribute many of his poor military decisions late in the war to the quack of a doctor who was treating him with "holistic cures" and "state-of-the-art medicine" but was in fact simply pumping him full of narcotics. Hitler being a trusting man could not see that he was being scammed and poisoned by this doctor even when confronted with evidence by the Chief Surgeon of the NSDAP and Army. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Morell

Also, as comfy as NatSoc ideology is, I still find its totalitarian bent and suspicion of Christianity unappealing. Also, it seems that it's really just monarchy with more steps, so I don't see what is gained over a traditional monarchy.

[–]SoylentCapitalist 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I attribute many of his poor military decisions late in the war to the quack of a doctor

He was a meth and opioid addict. This is what led to his deterioration and poor military decisions more than anything else I'd say.

[–]Jesus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

For a second I thought you meant this Hoffman:

http://www.thomassuarez.com/collier_hoffman_response.html

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Lol. I just realized I wrote 'james' instead of 'michael'. I must have been thinking of my favorite youtube barista.

This is the guy I meant to reference

https://twitter.com/HoffmanMichaelA?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Eembeddedtimeline%7Ctwterm%5Eprofile%3AHoffmanMichaelA&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.revisionisthistory.org%2Fpage1%2Fnews.html

https://www.blogger.com/profile/09485741729327325322

He wrote Usury in Christendom and hopefully one day he will pay someone to clean up his websites to make them more usable.

This blog looks like it was started in 2001

https://truthfulhistory.blogspot.com/2016/02/special-offers.html

[–]Fitter_HappierWhite Nationalist 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

"Hitler's War" by David Irving. No matter what you've heard from Jews, Irving doesn't lionize Hitler. But he's obviously not a monster, I mean no more than Andrew Jackson et al. It's easy to second guess people, he had legit fears of Russia and was only ever going to march East, deport the Jews. Churchill and the Jews were 100% responsible for the wider conflict, IMO, but I'm no expert.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

nazis were funded by american businessmen

[–]Jacinda 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Unz Review has a number of articles on Hitler of varying quality. You can access the archive here:

Here is one typical example by Guillaume Durocher.

Unz:

People have no idea just how artistic, Bohemian, and indeed feckless Hitler was by temperament. This is something which all those who frequented Hitler knew and which all the historians of the period know but which is scarcely mentioned in the documentaries and Hollywood films which shape public consciousness. Hitler was, in effect, a lifelong NEET (Not in [formal] Education, Employment, or Training). The Third Reich seems quite unique in having such a dictator at the helm.

[Snip..]

Young Hitler (on whom, see Brigitte Hamann’s excellent Hitler’s Vienna) was obsessed with art, architecture, and politics, passions which would never leave him. He was an insatiable bookworm and incorrigible loudmouth. He could produce professional architectural sketches and decent touristic paintings. He would draw sketches, read books, and talk politics and art with whoever would listen (in this case, his youthful friend August Kubizek) into the wee hours of the morning. This set the pattern for the rest of his life: most of the time he was thoroughly incapable of going to bed at a reasonable time. He certainly wasn’t interested in finding a job. As a result, when Hitler’s family savings ran out he ended up a homeless vagrant. [Cont... ]

[–]kokolokoNightcrawler 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Reading Mein Kampf you get a sense the man didn't have more than a primary education under his belt.

Edit: oh shit whadya know. No wonder the dumbass thought he could blitz Russia and eradicate Zionism by killing Jews.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

TGSNT

[–]oneinchterror 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Been a couple years since I watched it, but IIRC about 5-6 hours in there's a segment about the United States in the Reconstruction Era, and how black people were poor innocent victims who were just picked on for no reason by the evil meanie KKK and even the US government. It seemed like the goal was to contrast the US with NS Germany so as to imply that the US has no moral standing to condemn anything that happened under the 3rd Reich, but if the entire point of TGSNT was to clarify that Germany's history of atrocities has been fabricated, then that part sticks out as being almost overly defensive, dishonest, and ultimately pointless. Idk, like I said it's been a while, so I'd have to watch it again to reassess specific claims, but it really turned me off of a documentary I was otherwise enjoying to the point that I stopped there and never went back.

All of that is to say, I think TGSNT needs to be seriously condensed and polished before I'd feel comfortable recommending it to people.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Have you seen Europa the Last Battle?

[–]Antifa 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

https://youtu.be/ySgshytcIv0

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

https://youtu.be/oWw6ukjPExw

[–]SoylentCapitalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

From some basic research I did a while back I found that Hitler, while having exceptional verbal intelligence, would get very clammy hands and seem disorderly around new people. I figured he certainly had to deal with types of disorders that correlate highly with those who have high verbal intelligence i.e. anxiety disorders.

In 1993, the interdisciplinary team Desmond Henry, Dick Geary and Peter Tyrer published an essay in which they expressed their common view that Hitler had antisocial personality disorder as defined in ICD-10. Tyrer, a psychiatrist, was convinced that Hitler furthermore showed signs of paranoia and of histrionic personality disorder.[24]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathography_of_Adolf_Hitler#Psychopathy_/_antisocial_personality_disorder

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

He could have been a sperg. ASPD and HPD are bad diagnoses, even for those that believe the official mythology.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

one with autism is not usually so great at public speaking

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

He developed those skills through an opera obsession. And spergs are capable of extended rants on their select passions, they only struggle with conversationalism.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

he definitely had personality disorder, not autism tho

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There's a decent case for NPD/BPD, the other 2 Cluster Bs are odd choices.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

it's hard to diagnose now years after the fact with him gone. I don't really trust psychological community anyway, lot of made up terms. I'd just say he was crazy and that caused mistakes. You have to be a bit narcissistic to gain power too I think.

[–]CarlDungCrypto-fascist and eugenicist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

At least he had a meth addiction later on. He became mentaly unstable at some point, which might not be the case with his early career.

[–]Jacinda 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Counter Currents has an extensive Hitler archive as well as a large number of reviews.

[–]asterias 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There are people who see Hitler as the absolute evil and there are people who see him as perfect in every regard. Between them there is reality.

Had Hitler prevailed, I think the result would be far from the utopia some claim today. Take the people of the Baltic countries for example. No matter the outcome of the war, the result would be disastrous for them.

[–]Richard_Parker 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Many in the Baltic states served in the Waffen SS. I am not sure he saw them as slavic Untermenschen.

Not a Utopia, but there would be 1) no rap music 2) no Katy Perry, Madonna (I like Get in the Groove but that's it) or any of that garbage 3) no porn 4) no Jewish international financier structure.