all 20 comments

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I just skimmed the article, it is a load of poorly researched shit that still thinks it's 2016.

They're conflating "Alt-Right" figures like Richard Spencer with civnat/Zionist "Alt-Lite" figures like Mike Cernovich, Tommy Robinson and Milo Yiannopoulos. The AR and AL have never been in league with each other. It's a common misconception from 2016 because many of those people co-opted the AR label, but dropped it like a hot potato later.

The groups like Atomwaffen Division and National Action have never been part of the "Alt-Right". Morgoth and Millennial Woes talked about this before, but the people in those organisations are people we've never heard of or had any contact with. They seem to be all in obscure Facebook/Telegram groups. I think the groups themselves are FBI/MI5 honeytraps which some impressionable/angry white kids walk right into.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks for taking one for the team and reading such tripe. I'm so sick of articles that frame the Alt right disingenuously. In fact I'd gladly read a harsh critique of the alt right is the reviewer could at the very least bother to learn about who we really are. Do you think he was doing it because he genuinely didn't know about the alt right or was he just being malicious?

[–]AFutureConcern 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I suspect it's because when people learn who we really are, they take one of two options:

1) Realize that we're not as "extreme" as claimed, that we have some good points, and then join us 2) Realize that we're not as "extreme" as claimed, recognize that our values are not that dissimilar from normie social conservatives, and therefore recalibrate - become a far-leftist and call all right-wingers and centrists Nazi fascists who need to be deplatformed

So the only articles written about us are

1) Written by us 2) Written by raging leftists who attack all white people and conservatives as well 3) Written by people who don't know what they're talking about

Here we have option (3).

Edit: having read the piece it looks more like a (2). He thinks normie conservatives are Alt-Right...

[–]ChancellorMershekel 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

That's one long wall of text. Here's a much shorter wall of text addressing a few things, because I'm not going to read all that.

First, it's someone who is obviously versed in (modern) Marxism. That 'fascism is late stage capitalism' or 'fascism is the reserve army of capital' nonsense originates in those circles somewhere around the 1920s or 1930s in response to the fact that Marxists utterly failed to predict fascism's rise. They came up with this nonsense theory (Fascism is ultra-Right on everything, has nothing to do with socialism) to act wise after the fact and attempt to claim that their two enemies were actually one. However, the Communist Manifesto reveals that Marx/Engels saw the interests of 'reactionaries' (us) and 'bourgeois' (capitalist elite) as being antithetical to each-other. It's simply ignorant revisionism.

They write:

The bourgeoisie has, through its exploitation of the world market, given a cosmopolitan character to production and consumption in every country. To the great chagrin of reactionaries, it has drawn from under the feet of industry the national ground on which it stood. All old-established national industries have been destroyed or are daily being destroyed. They are dislodged by new industries, whose introduction becomes a life and death question for all civilised nations, by industries that no longer work up indigenous raw material, but raw material drawn from the remotest zones; industries whose products are consumed, not only at home, but in every quarter of the globe. In place of the old wants, satisfied by the production of the country, we find new wants, requiring for their satisfaction the products of distant lands and climes. In place of the old local and national seclusion and self-sufficiency, we have intercourse in every direction, universal interdependence of nations … The intellectual creations of individual nations become common property. National one-sidedness and narrow-mindedness become more and more impossible, and from the numerous national and local literatures, there arises a world literature … In one word, it creates a world after its own image.

Above, they make it clear that the 'bourgeoisie' are a globalizing force whose interests 'reactionaries' oppose. The likelihood is that Marx/Engels supported the bourgeoisie against reactionaries, because in 'historical materialism' capitalism and the industrialization/urbanization that resulted from it is viewed as an improvement over 'the idiocy of rural life'. That is, they favoured capitalism over previous systems, but those hypothetical future systems (socialism/communism) over capitalism.

Truth is, the pre-WWI far-Left—who were consolidated in Social Democratic parties (then mostly far-Left rather than left-Liberal)—were in a bind after the proletariat sided with their nations rather than with their class during the war. Marxists expected the proletariat to unite and overthrow the bourgeoisie rather than fight alongside them against working men of other nations. This then radicalized the Bolshevik types who went off and created their own strand of Marxism which became the USSR's blatantly hypocritical governing ideology. Social Democratic parties shifted towards left-Liberalism much later.

As for the whole Evola thing, it's commonplace to see those outsiders who critically study the 'Alt-Right' (e.g. the libertarian Jeffrey Tucker) for the sake of attempting to refute it, attempt to claim that there are numerous 'proto-Nazi' figures who 'Alt-Right' thought can be traced to. Tucker has nothing but venom for Evola (essentially claiming he was an idiotic madman who wrote with 'faux-erudition'). He also derides Fichte (a radical Leftist in his time, Tucker selectively uses a few quotes of his to paint him as far-Right) and Hegel (a careerist liberal-progressive in his time). Others do the same thing with Nietzsche (whose works were banned in Marxist countries because they came to the same conclusion, while American anarchists and some Western Marxists like Foucault instead claimed him as their own), Schopenhauer, Schmitt, Heidegger, etc.

It would be very time-consuming but otherwise easy to write an article refuting his ideological claims. However, I don't know or care about the 'Trump collusion' type of stuff much of his article is dedicated towards 'exposing'. All I would say to such claims, is that Trumpian populism/civic nationalism is practically unconnected to the 'Alt-Right', there was some early enthusiasm from the latter towards the former (exemplified in the 'God Emperor' meme which was largely in jest) that has since ebbed away to almost nothing. There was also a brief time back then when some people embraced the label (put upon them by Leftists) not knowing what it meant, and quickly renounced it (including Trump himself). Remember, these same Leftists claimed that 'Trump is the head of the Alt-Right' and thus that the 'Alt-Right won the 2016 election'... something which we all find laughable and flagrantly untrue. For starters, why the mass deplatforming if we're in 'actually in power'? This guy seems to fall for it; for him, 'MAGA' and 'Alt-Right' are somehow the same.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

You can use the '>' right arrow key to quote text.

it will look

like this

[–]ChancellorMershekel 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

No wonder people use that '>' character on places like Disqus for quotations, even though it does nothing to the text that comes after it. Must be a Reddit thing that Redditors use elsewhere because they're so accustomed to using it there for their own quotations and thus mutually understand what '>' means. Thanks very much, sir.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No problem. You can even quote inside of a quote.

Just like this

insert quote inside of quote here

And you can do paragraphs in quotes by

making sure

each line

has an arrow

[–]SailorAground 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The chanz work the same way when quoting content.

[–]slushpilot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's very old. Originally it was how inline-quoted replies were done in plain-text email and newsgroups. Then it got adopted for Markdown formatting, which is common on a lot of sites.

[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I've made a lot of posts, where's my CIA shekels? I demand at least 5$/1000 words

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Looks like he gave his email. Has anybody reached out to get him over here to chat?

(I haven't read it yet but I will after I'm done watching Tucker)

[–]stormbird 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Archive link to the original story, to avoid giving the author clicks, and analytics: http://archive.is/ni5nO

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Maybe a somewhat similar perspective: there's also "The Rats of Nationalism".

[–]AFutureConcern 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Mussolini, Adolf Hitler, Julius Evola [...] These are however all people who historically defended capital and the establishment

lol

When we are talking about far right ideas, we are, by definition, talking about ideas which serve to cut off the better off working class base from the left in the service of capital.

So it seems this guy is stuck in the left-right paradigm, thinking it's about economics all the time, and right-wingers are capitalist, so people who are far-right must be uber-capitalist. He thinks there is a giant conspiracy on the far-right to hide the fact that really, they are massive capitalists.

[–]AFutureConcern 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

In fact, he thinks:

Tied in and central to the alt right ideological terrain is [...] the radical belief that uninterrupted capitalism and the domination of the free market in all things.

I mean, wow. I'm probably more right-wing economically than a lot of posters here but there's no way I'd agree to "the domination of the free market in all things". This guy's been watching too much Stefan Molyneux. And even Stefan probably wouldn't agree with this ridiculous statement.

[–]AFutureConcern 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

More lolquotes:

I realise that for many people this is almost taken as a given, everything within capitalism reproduces capitalist ideology, why would the internet be any different?

Communism arose within capitalism, seriously what is this guy smoking. Does he read his own words?

Donald Trump himself has claimed that ‘the radical left are in control of Facebook’. This is of course nonsense [...] Facebook also recently hired former director general of the Israeli ministry of justice Emi Palmor

Not all of them are radical leftists! - some are Israelis.... lmao he's got a point

Gavin Mcinnes has of course appeared on Alex Jone’s Infowars and regularly rubs shoulders with all manner of alt right figures, including the man himself Donald Trump. Along with Trump, his former right and left hand men Steven Bannon and Roger Stone.

He thinks Donald Trump, Steven Bannon and Roger Stone are Alt-Right.

I believe I have shown that very many of the biggest media influences on the Alt Right are steeped in intelligence connections and are funded by the interests of capital. Tommy Robinson [...] Alex Jones [...] Steve Bannon [...] Mike Cernovich [...] Jack Posobiec

What is this crap. Liberal Zionist Tommy Robinson, conspiracy theorist Alex Jones, presidential advisor Steve Bannon, alt-light Mike Cernovich, and news anchor Jack Posobiec - none of these guys are close to being white nationalist. Bannon is probably the closest, the others may be right-wing but half of them get kicked off all the major platforms despite not being Alt-Right at all.

I believe I have shown that all of the alt rights most notorious channels, 4chan, 8chan, and Reddit, have all been the target of manipulation by intelligence agencies, such as those operating out of Eglin Aiforce base. I believe I have possibly shed light on the intentions behind that manipulation, such as in the case of Rushan Abbas, or in the creation of Neo Nazi groups which attack minorities and the left, such as The Base.

Again, correct. Alt-Right spaces are teeming with feds, what's new. It's that this guy is using the fact that feds entrap us with calls to violence as evidence that we are ourselves guided by feds, not the far more obvious conclusion that the feds are trying to stop our movement. There is little hope for this guy to be honest.


Every time I see a leftist rail against the Alt-Right I never see any mention of the clear, sweeping leftward social changes to society that have formed clown world. They are tearing down statues of the founders, blaming white people everywhere and calling them racist, writing white people out of the curriculum, the stage and the screen, discriminating against white people in hiring and in college admissions, they are telling people men are women and women are men, that race doesn't exist (except white people are to blame), that homosexuality, miscegenation, sodomy, pornography are normal and healthy, that we should accept the replacement and destruction of our culture and of our people (but it's not happening but you deserve it). Surely this should get some mention?

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

He thinks Donald Trump, Steven Bannon and Roger Stone are Alt-Right.

Everyone needs to watch this in regards to the 'National Populists' Bannon, Orban, Trump, Salvini, Stone, Netanyahu etc. Even back to Ayn Rand, Reagan and Nixon are linked to the same group of Jews (known as Arthur's boys lol) who manufacture the right side of the kosher sandwich.

[–]AFutureConcern 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah it confuses his argument. He even goes off against Zionists at one point. If he could only recognize that it's only the fake right and certain fedposting operations that are created by Feds and Zionists, he would see that the Alt-Right proper is against the system. But to a communist, all fascists and libertarians look the same to him so he sees Zionist influence on the libertarian right and associates it with us.

It's all so tiresome.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think he's trying to make an argument, how could you possibly research these things and be this mixed up unless it's intentional? It's way more likely this is just a shill trying to obscure the dissident right to protect his capitalist donours. There is no other explanation than that this is malicious so it's either a shill or a very motivated volunteer.

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

He cross posted it on the 'Liberalist' sub and as a funny aside they now have about one post per day -- much less than our little refuge here -- and the quality is extremely poor. That's pretty funny.