Debate a "leftist"

submitted by DoubleReverse from (self.debatealtright)

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[–]Richard_Parker 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (54 children)

You know what really has a negative impact on any civilization so foolhardy to indulge it? Balkanization and multiculturalism. Bigotry is a loaded term and can mean a whole lot of things. I myself do not hate someone who is Jewish or Black just because of that. I am capable of pattern recognition and see that, on the collective whole, blacks and whites are incompatible and that we need to separate. That we will not (before it is too late) is what is going to be real bad for society, and likely to get a lot of people hurt and killed, as we see for example in South Africa.

[–]Nombre27 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (51 children)

Bigotry is a loaded term and can mean a whole lot of things.

I was just about to say. First we have to define terms. What is bigotry and how are you using that term, give examples, etc.?

[–]DoubleReverse[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (50 children)

Bigotry is treating people differently based on some aspect of their identity rather than their actions. Centuries of racial discrimination lead to racial tension lead to societal unrest like what we see today with the BLM protests and accompanying riots and reactions.

[–]Richard_Parker 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

You mean like disparaging "bad" whites who do not kneel to your abject lunacy with lines like "check your privilege?"

It may still be possible to have dialogue with some reasonable lefties who do not (yet) see the light, but you are not one of them. Calling whites bigots, engaging in these conversation renders is not helpful.

[–]DoubleReverse[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

You're not being ostracized for being white, you are being ostracized for engaging in bigotry.

[–]Richard_Parker 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You are engaging in circular logic, as well as using loaded, emotioanally charged words that generally end the conversation.

First, you know jack and shit about me. I already stated I do not hate each and every person of a group because they are of that group. I do male genrlaizations based on repeated observations and trends on a macro scale.

Do you deny that groups of people need to make general, collective assessments of other groups in order to make sense of the world? Eg, in wwii vast majority of Japanese soldiers holding an island did not surrender, went on bonsai attacks, played dead then detonated grenades to take out US soldiers in their vicinity. In response, the American armed forces acted on the general collective assessment that the Japanese do not surrender. They still accepted prisoners when they could, three percent, but that was not their default modus operandi and took prisoners in the Pacific theater in a much differnt manner than North Africa or Europe.

My bias, not bigotry, against blacks operates under a similar collective assessment. So are you going to engage me, or just call me a bigot yet once more.

[–]DoubleReverse[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

"Do you deny that groups of people need to make general, collective assessments of other groups in order to make sense of the world?"

I do. It's helpful if the group acts with coordinated agency like a nation or political group, but there's no reason to make up generalizations about groups that anybody can be inherently born into. The "Japan" you're referring to in this context is a structured beurocracy that can meaningfully direct its constituents. One can reasonably assume a soldier fighting on behalf of the Japanese government will not surrender because that person joined the Japanese military and accepted their principles, but you'll notice basically the entire Japanese population of the USA in fact did surrender, en masse.

That said, when I say bigotry I'm not referring to people's opinions.

"My bias, not bigotry, against blacks operates under a similar collective assessment. So are you going to engage me, or just call me a bigot yet once more."

Whether or not you personally are a bigot is irrelevant.

[–]Richard_Parker 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The "Japan" you're referring to in this context is a structured beurocracy that can meaningfully direct its constituents.

What the fuck are you talking about? Do you think hundreds of thousands of young men are going to die in that matter because of "structured bureacracy." No these are deeply embedded through mores ingrained in Japanese society for centuries.

Also, Japanese in America are not Japanese. In any case, to redirect, blacks collectively commit wildly disproportionate levels of crime, and they vote for their interests monolithically. About five percent of blacks ever vote Republican. This justifies not just me but any racially conscious person to make generalizations about them.

You decry this is as "discrimination" and "bigotry," but when you pressed why this is bad given collective differences, you engage in the circular of logic of "well its bad because its discrimination and bigotry.

[–]DoubleReverse[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So if the Japanese people in America were no true Scotsmen, why do you assume everybody else must be?

"About five percent of blacks ever vote Republican."

And almost all white supremacists vote Republican. Coincidence? I think not.

[–]CarlDungCrypto-fascist and eugenicist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Bigotry is treating people differently based on some aspect of their identity rather than their actions. Centuries of racial discrimination lead to racial tension lead to societal unrest like what we see today with the BLM protests and accompanying riots and reactions.

There are racial tensions in all Western nations by muslim immigrants. Slavery is just a scapegoat to explain away why blacks are not collectively doing as good as whites.

[–]DoubleReverse[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

You're what abouting

[–]CarlDungCrypto-fascist and eugenicist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You don't know what whataboutism means? Whataboutism means that you are trying to discriminate or downplay significance of one event by suggesting it has already happened or is happening in one form or another elsewhere.

What I did was to compare similar events of US to events that happened in Europe, while suggesting the cause of those acts is not the same.

For example, comparative historical research is academic field of study, and has nothing to do with whataboutism.

[–]DoubleReverse[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

What I mean by what abouting is deliberately changing the subject to cover for dodging the original topic. I asked the alt right to defend their stance on race discrimination, and you're trying to drag me into an argument over how privileged you think the jews are. It's obvious you're trying to distract me, and it's obvious why.

[–]CarlDungCrypto-fascist and eugenicist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Ah, so you are the victim because you decided to answer? I don't think you are very happy with having a free will.

[–]DoubleReverse[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

K

[–]Nombre27 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (37 children)

Okay.

So kind of synonymous with discrimination or discriminating?

[–]DoubleReverse[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (36 children)

I guess.

[–]Nombre27 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (35 children)

Okay.

So are you against all forms of discrimination?

[–]DoubleReverse[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (34 children)

No, just discrimination based on identity rather than actions

[–]Nombre27 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (33 children)

Okay.

What variables do you include when you mean someones identity? Please be as comprehensive as you can.

[–]DoubleReverse[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (32 children)

Things like race, sexuality, religion, appearance, etc. Things that you are as opposed to things that you do.

[–]Nombre27 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (27 children)

Okay. That's pretty good. So things that you can't change, that you're born with.

What do you think about affirmative action policies? I think it goes without saying that giving preference to one group necessitates discriminating against everyone else outside of that group, does it not?

[–]Extract 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I was merely lurking this thread, but, based on your stance on discrimination, what is your stance on affirmative action?

[–]DoubleReverse[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Seems to me like real discrimination is a much greater threat than the vague possibility of some future discrimination, but the point is honestly moot anyway because racial segregation wouldn't prevent people from discriminating against one another. Racism is just one of countless forms of bigotry.

[–]Richard_Parker 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Germany has technically always been multicultural, in a sense because of regional al differences (Bavarians, Schwabians, Hessians, Prussians, Saxons, Silesians, etc), while still being homogeneous in an absolute sense. Dittto with the UK. And yeah Scots and English have had their disagreements, but have still been able to coalesce into a coherent nation state because they have more in common. Not so with the multi cultivar bag of party favors you lefties are pushing. So yeah there is some inter group adversarial dynamics in these examples, but it still works. This will not.