all 23 comments

[–]ActuallyNot 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (25 children)

I believe the $250K was for contempt of court. Not for humanely raising and selling food to willing customers. (Is the willing redundant there?)

It seems that in late 2015, the Food and Drug Administration, isolated and identified Listeria monocytogenes (L. mono) bacteria in samples of Miller’s raw milk; through whole genome sequencing, found the bacteria to be genetically similar to L. mono in two individuals who had developed listeriosis (with one dying) after consuming raw milk; and named Miller’s as the “likely source” of those infections.

So they went to the FDA to get access to the farm to inspect the operations. They haven't gotten the ordered access over the past 5 years, and now the Judge reckons it's time for them to do something about the repeated orders to allow inspections not having any affect. Hence the $250K.

To be fair, he could allow the fucking inspections.

[–][deleted]  (23 children)


    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (14 children)

    Can't they find middle ground? I'm generally for not dying from my food and regulations play a role in that.

    [–]skeeter 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (11 children)

    oh, i see, an alcoholic that wants to legislate me out of being able to drink raw cow milk.

    i better fact check that.

    when i was a kid, we used to be able to buy "raw milk" at the grocery store and we could also go directly to the dairy farm and buy it there.

    that milk was absolutely the bomb. it was very good. this crap that we get at the store now tastes like it has been mixed with radioactive waste.

    fyi, i dont know if anybody is allowed to sell "raw milk" to anyone.

    [–][deleted]  (4 children)


      [–]skeeter 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

      i am semi-aware of a few of these issues.. i have watched videos where farmers are not even allowed to setup a fruit stand on the road in front of their farm..

      this is a conspiracy that not many talk about, the disabling of the farmers ability to be farmers.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)


        [–]skeeter 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        very nice.

        [–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        I get mine through the Amish, skeets.

        [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

        You ever had a blind taste test between raw and pasteurized milk?

        [–]Optimus85 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

        I was a CIP technician at an organic juice company once and had to clean and sterilise the pasteurizer every shift. There are a few centrifugal pumps, holding tanks and pipe connection manifolds in play. You basically run hot water a few minutes through it then run caustic(sodium hydroxide) for a few minutes as well then rinse. It's basically a small radiator that recirculates the liquid to reach a certain temperature(hot water pumped through a different circuit) at which point the thermostat kicks in and releases a solenoid valve that lets the liquid flow to the holding tanks in the post-pasteurization room(That I would wash clean along with the tanks with pressurised foam bleach. I miss the smell.). This isn't relevant to the post. I'm just drunk and reminiscing about one of the few jobs I actually enjoyed. More relevant to the post: I bought ultra-filtered milk recently and the taste was amazing.

        [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

        I appreciate the story, that's interesting.

        [–]Optimus85 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

        The bottom line is that proper sanitation routines and pasteurization increase shelf life. Here's more info on what CIP is. Those pesky regulations might be bothersome for some but they do prevent foodborne illnesses. Thnaks for reading. I'm even drunker now.

        [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        I'm even drunker now

        Drink moar is my motto.

        [–]FlippyKing 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        in an ideal world regulations, where we are not specifying what regulations nor how they were arrived at nor how they are enforced and what recourse is available to those who disagree with the enforcement, would do as you say. Too often they serve as a means to keep out of business those who can't afford to play the game but who could run a perfectly safe farm and provide perfectly safe food with no more, and likely far less, problems of dying from one's food than food produced by those who can afford to play the game. Most often small businesses are the ones attacked by regulatory enforcement because they can not afford the costs to successfully defend the attack and can not afford to bribe administrations or be part of the revolving door of job-hopping between regulators and business.

        They can't find a middle ground because it is not about the regulations but about punishing those who would fight. This is true in criminal cases as well where prosecutors are very open about demanding tougher punishments for those who refuse plea deals and judges are very open about punishing tougher those who refuse plea deals.

        [–]ohkrill 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (7 children)

        If'n you're gonna sell meat to the public, the gub'ment has the right to inspect that the meat is safe to consume. That's the law, and it's been the law for more than a hundred years. I mean, good luck taking a stand for whatever they think is "evil" about imposing a modicum of food safety, but it's a fight they're not going to win.

        [–][deleted]  (6 children)


          [–]ohkrill 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

          Well, there's no Constitutional argument to be had here. The authority of the USDA to inspect a farm that sells meat to consumers is pretty well-established and there's not a court in the nation that would find it to be unconstitutional. Is it ethical? I'd argue that of course it is, the government has a role in ensuring the safety of the food supply - but of course, that is a philosophical argument and I gather I'm arguing with someone who wants to eat meat free from any kind of government oversight, which is a bizarre hill to die on, but okay.

          Here's a court document related to this case that lays down some facts:

          I think it's significant that Millers entered into a consent decree, legally agreeing that the farm sold meat products that were subject to the USDA's authority to regulate and inspect, and despite warnings, continued to engage in practices that the court told them they couldn't do. I also note that Millers never applied for any kind of exemption (and at this point, having continued to ignore repeated warnings and court orders, I'm guessing if they did so now it'd be too late).

          [–][deleted]  (4 children)


            [–]ohkrill 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

            Okay, dude. Enjoy your listeria.

            [–][deleted]  (2 children)


              [–]ohkrill 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

              Translation: you're a complete tool.

              [–]ohkrill 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

              Thank you. If they supposedly have "higher standards" than the USDA, all they have to do is allow the inspections.

              Here's some more background:

              [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

              Lol they left the Amish alone forever, they’re going after them now too?

              [–]pizda 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

              "My religion prevents me from letting you record my listeria ridden milk"

              [–][deleted]  (1 child)


                [–]TulipPoplar 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

                The Amish tend to not treat their animals well, but most of this argument is over USDA regulations that favor factory farming operations that are not strictly for health reasons.

                [–]Ehhhhhh 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

                They want to control the food supply and therefore must attack anyone not working with the system.

                I wonder how much those usda slaughterhouses and meatpacking make.

                [–]LarrySwinger2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

                This thread was mentioned on Incantation here. Check out that page for a longer term discussion about this topic.