all 10 comments

[–]catlover1019 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

If you think this is socialism, I'd hate to see your reaction to real socialism, or even just more socialized, but still ultimately capitalist countries like the Nordic ones.

[–]Jesus[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Socialism and a welfare state for the elite. Feudalism for the middle class. Nordic countries are not socialist, they privatize like crazy and have a market economy. Denmark is also neither a socialist state. Plus, there's different kinds of socialism. We have cronyism in a highly coerced state with the illusion of capitalism. So, basically we are heading towards a welfare state, very much like Ben-gurion predicted but a welfare state that doesn't protect the goodness and personalism of man. Neither will we have liberty or privacy. The transition is slow but we are at the doorsteps with help from oligarchic plutocrats in high places. At least an aristocracy, if it adhered to the principles of the best in man and morals whilst it ridded of predatory usury would be far more ideal than where we are heading. Republicanism is what we should have not democracy which always ends in tyranny, not to be confused with many tyrants of neo-babylonia, Sumer, and biblical times. Who freed people from indebtness. Of course times have changed; above all we must be in Gods eye a dove. We must be charitable and generous and refuse government and democratic, socialistic interference with in the traditions of family and livelihood.

[–]wizzwizz4 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Ok. "Socialism", "Capitalism", "Feudalism" etc. are banned words. What do the elite, middle and working classes have, and what should they have? What things are good, and what things can be improved?

[–]Jesus[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Firstly, as I understand it, the west does not have a classical liberal (as in Libertas; not modern liberal or neoliberalism) democracy, we are now 180 degrees from that and our current liberal parties (democratic party, even many of the faux-alternative parties) are strongly statist in the sense they are closer to the modern communist ideal. The definition of classical liberal ideals are often quite ambiguous, whereas libertarians are far more practical. The libertarian principles might be seen as a more radical classical liberal, but in actuality classical liberals never defined how the social structure of society should work because it was its own antithesis.

By giving the individual the right to self-determination and above all, the principles of liberty it surely leaves the question open as to if that would be achieved by a big centralized, benevolent Government or no Government at all ( natural human society without rules; anarchy). Due to this ambiguity, one is unable to decipher anything but the basic of principles, which can be interpreted several ways.

Libertarians move towards a more practical proposition; that is the ideal of a minimum Government needed to uphold common laws, while retaining maximum liberty and self determination.

The political system in the West, which is close to modern fascism or communism in its scope, is why it is called Neo liberal. Neo liberalists are really fascists (look at fascist definition prior to 1980's). The economic plan adopted by the National Socialist party was Keynesian ( big public spending programme which meant eventual expansionism that could be utilized for rearmament) but the modern west is Neo Keynesian which means expansionism by large corporations and especially centralized banks. So, we have a strange hybrid of this show of prosperity which was common to communist and Facist statism, such as city sky scrapers and events like the Olympics to create the illusion of high ideals of mind and body.

It is a society of mock individualism, mock freedom and especially mock democracy but don't tell your fellow mate that their bound to scoff at you.

In the United States (not to be confused with the Republic of the United States of America) we the people are plagued with an ever expanding Soft faced Facism or Communism in which control is by the very rich (plutocracy), and within that plutocracy comprises a tightly knit oligarchy (read the Princeton Study which investigated the socioeconomic, legislative, judicial, executive branches as well as the social aspects of governance and the US citizenries participation in government over a 30 year period. Their study concluded that the US is an oligarchy).

Within this plutocratic oligarchy is a crony-corportocracy or complete corporate control over all branches of government; in congress for example, cronyism is defined therein. Basically, powerful corporate and banking bodies and their amalgamation with Government.

Concerning government regulations. That monopolies, the consolidation of omnipotent power that is detrimental to the common person and infringes on their liberty and livelihood should NOT be regulated is most certainly not the classical libertarians stance. Many neoliberals claim a free market is good, many libertarians also claim, the freer the market the freer the people, however, the neoliberal's definition of a free market is much different than that of a Libertarians. For the neoliberal believes in deregulation, even at the expense of liberty and freedom for the common person. That very deregulation could also cause future environmental damage, constitutional infringements, wealth inequality, higher possibilities of economic collapses, increased monopolization powers, etc,. Libertarians seek a happy medium. That is that government regulation is needed to curtail creditor deregulation if it imposes any austerity measures that reduce liberty and freedom of self-determination.

The only problem is it's most likely the big money, the corportocracy itself, that writes the regulations and to their favor. So, we lose here too.

Moreover, the economics of the corportocracy have socialistic tendencies in that the production, distribution and exchange is owned by THIER community, not ours; their coportocracy, their plutocracy, their coming technocracy. In reality, we have a mixed system with elements of modern communism, in that property ownership is being placed into the hands of the state, not YOUR private hands. Modern in modern communism implies the once private ownership, such as the home you own, is now in the hands of the state and its corporate handlers. The future goal is a complete eradication of private property and the setting up of a half-baked welfare state. So, these principles are in direct contrast to classical communism or true Marxism.

[–]wizzwizz4 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Well done. You almost managed to avoid those words completely, and by the time you'd used them you'd clarified your meaning such that it was clear what you were saying!

(Now, I don't entirely agree with your writing, but let's not spoil the moment.)

[–]Jesus[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

We should have a democracy here. At least on the local level. Where national laws thwart liberty and self-determination local and state laws are allowed to block them; local being of a higher deviation than state. However, Democracy is mob rule, so if 51% vote yes in the local community on something and 50% vote no and it passes, what do the 50% do. We should have a vestige of the moral principles of democracy, such as a system of government where the citizens exercise power in all maters, However, most people these days have not a clue of politics, geopolitics or anything else for that matter. It wasn't like this in antiquity; the dumbing down of society has been purposeful and this has to change. Education in the philosophical sense and ethical sense needs to change drastically, so the majority of citizens can be knowledgable in these fields.

Iactually, wrote a 35 page thesis on the best forms of governance, I'll try to find it.

I wrote that we need a mixed government, where principles of democracy rule, but that these mob rulings do NOT infringe on local rights, of self-determination, property, privacy and liberty.

An example would be contract law and how to teach children at a young age, how contract law can work in tacit agreements. That is what private entities like to do now, if YOU ARE the PRODUCT. If you do not say no, then that means yes, even if they never told you they were going to do it.

[–]wizzwizz4 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I agree with this comment. A solution to the 50% thing is to set a different threshold… but you need to choose carefully to make sure it's not arbitrary, otherwise people unhappy with it will argue it down. 68% (if you want to abuse stats) seems to be a decent value.

Though I think basic rationality is also important to teach young children.

[–]Jesus[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Peace brother. I agree.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The US has socialism for the wealthy, and predatory capitalism for the middle class and poor.

[–]toxic_masculinity 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

nobody is more brainwashed and out of touch with reality than an american.