Saidit keeps getting nonsense frontpage generalizations about liberals so I thought I'd help balance it out with some Conservative Paradise

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[–]fred_red_beans 29 insightful - 5 fun29 insightful - 4 fun30 insightful - 5 fun -  (18 children)

Conservatives are nazis?

I don't think this is a fair characterization of conservatism and just feeds the into the right vs left paradigm of divide and conquer.

[–]magnora7 26 insightful - 3 fun26 insightful - 2 fun27 insightful - 3 fun -  (15 children)

I think that's kind of the point OP is making, I suppose. Given the title.

But eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. The moderate voices get lost in the noise if each side pretends the other side is represented only by their extremists.

But I also agree with the sentiment of OP that there have been a lot of things crossposted from voat lately that are basically "liberals are all dumb" memes and I don't like the bias.

However I'm not totally sure the mud-slinging of the OP is the best way to address this, but it certainly is getting attention

[–]fred_red_beans 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

But eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind

Agreed. This is why I believe it's better to debate specific ideas or topics rather than argue broad generalizations. People are always going to have differences in opinion, knowledge, and perception. I think by listening to another's point of view and attempting to understand, one can at least accept and perhaps find some commonalities. By making broad generalizations and characterizations it makes it harder to learn from and communicate with each other.

[–]magnora7 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Couldn't agree more.

[–]SecretlyHistoric 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Hey magnora7. Can we make a space specifically for political debate? I don't necessarily mind it being all over the front page, but a centralized sub might help foster more discussion. Make sure it really follows the pyramid of discussion and see where we get. Could have a topic of the week. Let people debate a topic for 7 days and see where it goes.

Not to prevent anyone from posting political stuff elsewhere, but just a spot for in depth discussion.

[–]magnora7 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

That's not a bad idea, but we already have /s/politics and people end up posting where they want, so we can only group it so much. Perhaps there could be a way to flag it so others could screen it out if they wished, or some system like that.

[–]SecretlyHistoric 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

What about a group like s/politicaldebate? Say that anything on the bottom 4 levels of the pyramid are flagged, and perhaps disable the ability to reply to those comments. Warnings are given to those who violate the rule. Three strikes and your out of the weeks debate. Try again next week. Every post or argument posed in the comments must have at least 1 source linked.

Just a spot for more in depth debate than on highly generalized meme posts. I'd love to see more debate, but when it is on posts this general it's hard to get a quality debate going.

[–]magnora7 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Interesting ideas! Would you be interested in running a community like that? It would be need to have a place like that.

I often find the quality of the debate in the comments often correlates to the quality of the original post itself. So more low-quality posts like the OP generally aren't a good place to start in my experience.

[–]SecretlyHistoric 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Welp, here we go.... https://saidit.net/s/PoliticalDebate/

[–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Looks good! Good luck with it!

[–]Alduin 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

It's an interesting paradigm you've created here with the double upvote and no downvote buttons. It's like having a live audience where everyone can clap loudly but no one can boo. I'm expecting this to be less likely to become an echo chamber and have more opposing narratives. If that's true, then it will be the most extreme of those narratives that will get the most applause as they compete.

[–]magnora7 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That might end up being the case. But it might also be the case that it's easier to discover what overlaps the two sides the best, that we can all agree on.

[–]Alduin 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah that actually does sound more likely now that I think about it. I hope so, that sounds better. That may mean less politics as well, which would be amazing.

We'll just have to see I guess. Should be interesting.

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    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I agree mostly but on the "mud-slinging" point, I think as you pointed out, given the title that does not really seem the point. I also find it interesting that this sort of argument is only brought up when it's conservatives in the cross-hairs. There's not a lot of calls for moderation, fairness, and respect in threads where people are shit-posting about the "dumb whiny liberals"

    [–]magnora7 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    That's a fair point. However there's a difference in severity between "dumb whiny liberals" and "conservatives are literally nazis"

    [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

    nazis had left wing economics, but also had right wing social issues. best combo, these days you have to pick out of 2 bad choices

    [–][deleted] 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

    I prefer the libertarian opposite: conservative economics and liberal social policy.

    [–]Tom_Bombadil 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

    They didn't have defined borders. They were continually expanding.

    They did have universal healthcare.

    They also supported gun control.

    [–]JasonCarswellPlatinum Foil Fedora 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Autobahn and Volkswagen

    [–]the-ham-bummer 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (9 children)

    pissed at misrepresentation of liberals

    proceeds to misrepresent the other side, to be "balanced"

    as if reddit didn't "balance" enough

    two wrongs make a right

    typical leftie tbh

    [–]magnora7 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

    proceeds to misrepresent the other side, to be "balanced"

    tbh extremist conservatives are generally as bad about this as extremist liberals. Both sides are often talking past each other and it's not helpful to anyone

    [–]beyond_strength 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

    Ah. Are you perhaps an intelligent centrist like I, my fine sir?

    I too like to suck dick and get my almonds activated.

    [–]magnora7 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

    Respect the pyramid of debate on saidit. First warning. Low-information mockery of any ideology is not welcome, and is at the bottom of the pyramid of debate. This is not reddit.

    https://saidit.net/s/SaidIt/comments/j1/the_saiditnet_terms_and_content_policy/

    [–]beyond_strength 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    almonds activated

    suck dick

    Am i... just bad at writing a joke? :(

    This was a joke. I don't spit without preparing to get hit. Sorry if you thought otherwise.

    [–]magnora7 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

    Calling people gross insulting names is not a 'joke', it's just being a jerk tbh. It's at the bottom of the pyramid of debate. Those are the site rules.

    [–]beyond_strength 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Well, I guess we both have different opinions on what a joke is... but alright. I'll add an /joke at the end, so the person reading knows its a joke. :)

    [–]magnora7 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    Well if it's at the bottom levels of the pyramid of debate, it's still not welcome. You're not allowed to go:

    "You're a fucking retard moron /joke"

    That's still at the bottom of the pyramid of debate. If you can't discuss stuff without slinging out angry names at everyone every other comment, especially if you're not contributing any other useful information, I don't think you'd really fit in here anyway. You'd probably enjoy a place like 4chan or voat more. This is a place people come to get away from the mud-slinging, there's plenty of other places that are taken over by people acting that way.

    [–]Flesh 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    "Saidit keeps getting nonsense frontpage generalizations so I thought I'd post this nonsense frontpage generalization"

    [–]Doob 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Can we just be respectful to each other instead of posting shit that belongs on r/forwardsfromgrandma Be the change you want to see in your community and let's give mutual respect

    [–]Jac0b777 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    It always bothers me so much that people put each-other into tiny little boxes like "liberal" or "conservative" and then everything about that person based on said box and mental label.

    Not talking about you OP, I assume that is the very idea you were trying to dispel with this exaggerated picture about one of those sides.

    [–]Snow 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    This is a weak point of the human minds, elites love to use it.

    [–]Airbus320 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    😮

    load more comments (1 reply)

      [–]wizzwizz4 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      I've fallen for this; different boxes, same effect. I'm not proud of it, and I'm working on it. Shameless LessWrong plug to follow.

      LessWrong is a collection of articles and pieces of information about how to overcome your intrinsic biases. (I still have enough of those biases that I try to weaponise these articles, so take my links to them with a pinch of salt.) This is some of the most dangerous information I have access to, but I'm sharing it with you because… well, I don't want to live in a world where people think that winning an argument means what you're saying is true.

      Related: Ethnic Tension and Meaningless Arguments, The noncentral fallacy - the worst argument in the world?

      Similar: The Categories Were Made For Man, Not Man For The Categories, Diseased thinking: dissolving questions about disease

      [–]Jesus 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      To congregate into one myopic identity, without understanding the God within, is to ignore the elephant in the room that is ego.

      I do notice an uptick in conservatism here on saidit, but most of these posts do not value the principles of conservatism just as the puppet in cheif Trump does not.

      This is comparable to hwo democrates are not liberals.

      Also, the national socialists WERE NOT CONSERVATIVES, your post is pretty dumb. Memes have completely ruined our abiltiy to think and sort of fact from fiction.

      The national socialists had both a right-wing ideological approach to nationalism; the right of the volk, i.e,. ethnic Germans under a totalitarian police state. Being an ethnic German in National Socialist Germany, was not great but by no means bad. Germany did much better in the economic depression that followed. Hitler was able to get Germany out of the slump with help from a Jewish economist and banker. Largely, the two largest banks in Germany, both Jewish owned, one being behind the Zionist movement in Germany were the largest contributors to the national socialists, which is interesting in itself.

      We have to take into account why Hitler rose to power, and the millions who supported him. It all starts before WW1.

      I should also note, National Socialists did have many liberal/socialist economic systems in place. Germany in the 30's consisted of a mixed system of governance.

      And yes, the National Socialists did terrible, inhuman things. Though, today, the genocide of European Jewery is blown out of proportion, the Nazi's tried everything to emmigrate them to Palestine under the Havaara agreement.

      [–]sawboss 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      1. I am NOT a conservative.
      2. This meme does NOT accurately portray the sentiments of the conservatives in my life.

      MANDATORY FLAG WORSHIP

      Our flag is a symbol of the ideals Americans hold dear. When we honor our flag, we honor those ideals and each other. Which American ideals do you hold dear and feel are worth upholding into the future?

      [–]McDonalds 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (3 children)

      wow this subreddit was good for 20 minutes, how about both sides go back to reddit

      [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 6 fun4 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 6 fun -  (2 children)

      Implying conservatives are allowed on reddit

      [–]magnora7 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

      On select subs, that's all that's allowed lol. Reddit is like 80% DNC-only subs, and 10% RNC-only subs and then 10% hobby subs and other subs. It's pretty well segregated. Finding moderate discussions is rare, and the tone seems to entirely depend on which subreddit you're in

      [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_4OfD-wmGs

      [–]Tom_Bombadil 3 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

      Your top rated submission... Is a Nazi poster?!

      [–]sawboss 3 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

      Holy shit you're right! Scary!

      [–]indianusjones 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      Fair and Balanced, Endless, good on 'ya!

      [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

      we do need historical revisionism

      [–]SecretlyHistoric 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

      As a historian, no we don't. Forget the history and you forget the lessons taught by history.

      [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      blocked

      [–]JasonCarswellPlatinum Foil Fedora 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

      As a human, yes we always need to be reassessing things. If this means going back over the history books to find how they were just contemporary propaganda then maybe we can drill down into to the truth of how we got where we are today.

      My views will change as the evidence changes.

      You're not secretly historic if you declare it.

      [–]SecretlyHistoric 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

      Oh, I'm not saying that we don't need to constantly go back and re-evaluate the past. That needs to be done constantly to better understand who we are and where we came from. That being said, what we don't need is people going back and using history-sometimes incorrect history- to push an agenda or attempt to forget the past for moral reasons. https://thehill.com/capital-living/cover-stories/167475-revisionist-history-politicians-rewrite-the-past-to-suit-their-present

      http://fordhampoliticalreview.org/the-dangers-of-historical-revisionism/

      [–]hennaojisan 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Nothing personal but this is not even close to a fair meme in my opinion. Conservatives do not want more police and military and certainly, a MAGA hat is not a Nazi flag. Right now a MAGA hat means more to liberals as an abstract symbol of what they hate than a symbol for conservatives since Trump is, if anything, aligning with Israel and other oppressors while filling the swamp with his kind of predators.

      [–]useless_aether 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (16 children)

      what was the deal with the german national socialists and their unreasonably long flags?

      flag envy?

      [–]JasonCarswellPlatinum Foil Fedora 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (15 children)

      They didn't have "news" channels and superbowls. Make do.

      [–]useless_aether 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

      i think it was all arbait arbait arbait

      [–]JasonCarswellPlatinum Foil Fedora 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (13 children)

      Today it's all USA! USA! USA!

      [–]useless_aether 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

      no, it just the opposite. 'no border, no wall, no usa at all' is what is being pushed

      [–]JasonCarswellPlatinum Foil Fedora 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

      That crap is only pushed by the insane left to feed the division and the right is choking on it as intended.

      But if you go to almost any American crowd and start USA! US... the chant will keep going on it's own for a while and you know it.

      American sheeple are the most programmed in the world.

      Come to Canada and try to get a Can-A-Da chant going. It won't happen because we don't buy it.

      [–]useless_aether 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

      i agree, but that insane left is holding the power and calling the shots. they are the globalists, like soros, ted turner, rockefellers, kissinger, the un, the vatican. they are the one destroying the usa to give way to their multipolar nwo.

      also i wouldnt call patriots sheeple. nationalism is the antidote for globalism. i support it in all of its expressions.

      [–]JasonCarswellPlatinum Foil Fedora 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

      Nonsense. The insane left is not the president with "the power", and the insane left are only puppet of the globalists who are anything but left but everything about division, distraction, manipulation, and exploitation - not to mention extermination.

      Patriots are dogmatic sheeple.

      Decentralization is the antidote, and if that means national vs global it also means states vs nations, or counties vs states, and communities over city-counties, and families above all.

      [–]useless_aether 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

      we will see

      [–]JasonCarswellPlatinum Foil Fedora 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

      See what?

      Decentralization is the antidote but the sheeple need to wake up. I don't expect them to wake up. If that's what you mean.

      [–]Jesus 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Agree, useless is right. The multipolar nwo is the real However, they use both sides. The multipolar nwo will be fascist though.

      [–]Jesus 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

      But the multilateral nwo will come. Be ready.

      [–]JohnnyMongrel 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

      Is Saidit gonna slide straight to the bottom just like Voat, Reddit, Facebook, Twitter,Tumblr etc.?

      [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

      Nope! Ad free, employee free, and low operating costs.

      [–]JohnnyMongrel 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      Does that have any effect on content?

      [–]CherryPieNTheSky 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

      Thank you for this. Saidit is going the way of Voat, sadly. I may not be here for much longer. (I'm all for freedom of speech, but when it starts getting like Voat - just mindless hatred - I find it a turn off). If I want to see stuff like that, I'd go to some Far Right site and revel in it.

      [–]wizzwizz4 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      Please stay here. Please, I can't stop this place from turning into Voat alone. (And I'm not, but if you leave that'll be one less person.)

      [–]JasonCarswellPlatinum Foil Fedora 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

      How is this "/s/conspiracy"?

      [–]SecretlyHistoric 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      Good question.

      [–]tiny 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      Yes, conservatives love national socialist parties! They even love being called nazi, a bigoted term formed against socialists. It's like a math equation I can't bother to figure out.

      [–]Snow 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

      I watched a documentary that the living habit chimpanzee is: find anyone looks not in their own group, and then attack crazily.

      [–]hennaojisan 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

      Once I saw a bunch of crows attacking a white heron. Sometimes a mutant crow is white and they kill it. Many times while riding a train in a foreign country, a baby will lock eyes on me. At first, the baby is surprised but almost always they start crying, so the best idea is to turn away. It's just fear of someone different than they are used to. I think this kind of racism is builtin and you can only override it by the exercise of will and intellect. Once I was in a particularly bad mood and some girl about four was looking at me with alarm so I went into vampire mode and scared the shit out of her. She ran to her mother and pointed me out but by then I was in innocent foreigner mode once again. I am bad.

      [–]Jesus 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

      That's racist

      /s

      [–]hennaojisan 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

      Yes, after writing that I pinged that it could be interpreted as having a racist subtext so I'll just disavow any racist intent. It could be argued that animals' and humans' fear of the unknown/different is an evolutionary survival mechanism but you can definitely override it.

      [–]Jesus 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      No it's not racist at all.

      [–]HeyImSancho 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      I completely comprehend where you're coming from; to ignore this, at least to me, is to ignore yourself.

      Noting what you do, or see the world, isn't racism, it's knowing; used for self reflection, and further development. We're each in this temporal world; start, and finish alone. I view my time as a contract between myself, and whatever this place is.

      [–]SecretlyHistoric 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      For those who would like a political debate, I've linked this post to s/politicaldebate. Any discussion that does not have sources, contains personal attacks or attacks against tone only will be removed. Only high level debate will be allowed. https://saidit.net/s/PoliticalDebate/comments/k9s/free_form_debate_from_sconspiracy_debate_based_on/

      [–]Intuit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Was that situational? When a vehicle is coming to a stop, for a while it's decelerating and you feel a forward force.