“There are 6,000,000 living, bleeding, suffering arguments in favor of Zionism.” - Rabbi Wise Alright, I guess I understand the argument here, although he said living, not dead. But oh wait, one more tiny detail. This statement was made in 1900. Oops.

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[–]wizzwizz4 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

What does this mean? Why are people voting it "insightful"? I feel like you're pandering to an audience (and a sentiment), because this doesn't actually seem to mean anything of consequence.

[–]cmdrrockawesome 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

People are voting for it because anti-Semitism is enjoying a comeback in Europe and America. Any article that calls the Holocaust into question or debases Jews in any way is like honey to these people.

[–]Jesus[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The holocaust should be examined for its historical accuracy. Nobody here denies Jews were not genocided.

[–]Jesus[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Watch this to understand, this is one of many different depictions of the 6 million figure well before Hitler ever rose to power.

Most people believe that roughly six million Jews were killed by National Socialist Germany during World War II in an event generally referred to as the Holocaust or the Shoah. But how long have we been hearing about this six-million figure? The most widely understood answer is that the six-million figure was established after the Second World War during the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg.

Although it is true that the six-million figure was declared to be the indubitable truth at this tribunal, it is actually remarkably older. This documentary shows that the six-million figure dates back to the late 1800s, when Jewish pressure groups were targeting czarist Russia for its anti-Jewish stance, accusing Russia of oppressing and persecuting the six million Jews in Russia, and adopting a “solution” to its “Jewish question” which allegedly consisted of outright extermination. Claims that six million Jews in Europe were suffering to such a degree that millions had died already, while many more millions would face a lingering death, climaxed for the first time during fundraising campaign that started during the FIRST World War and reached its peak in the early and mid-1920s. The "New York Times" was the main vehicle for such propaganda, which also included well-known buzzwords such as “annihilation,” “extermination” and even the term “holocaust.”

And I'm by no means whitewashing the National Socialist regime of Germany from any of its undisputed wrongdoings. Imprisoning people without proper due process is a crime. Any authority committing such a crime ultimately bears responsibility for those in its custody.

This is a very good documentary with all sources listed and has made me rethink what the offical history books say about the Holocaust.

http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/ProbingTheHolocaust-Part1-HB25.mp4

[–]wizzwizz4 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Oh, thanks for explaining. So you're saying that the number 6 million was used before the Holocaust, and therefore it cannot be the number who died in it.

[–]Jesus[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, it was used for the sole purpsoe of attrocity propaganda, nearly a hundreds years before WW2 many times over, including that 6 million were, had or did, or were likely to perish. That is one point of a much larger point that the six million figure is impossible if you take into account the number who died in camps. Watch this documentary to get an idea:

http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/ProbingTheHolocaust-Part1-HB25.mp4

[–]cmdrrockawesome 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

This is completely disingenuous and taken out of context. Post the whole damn article when you do this nonsense. For those who care, the full article is here.

The article relates speeches given in 1900 in support of the re-establishment of a Jewish state by various Jewish leaders. The quote in question is as follows:

There are 6,000,000 living, bleeding, suffering arguments in favor of Zionism. They come not to beg, but to ask for that which is higher than all material things. They seek to have satisfied the unquenchable thirst after the ideal. They ask to become once again the messengers of right, justice, and humanity.

He's likely referencing the 5,000,000 or so Jews that were being persecuted in Russia and eastern Europe at the time. Numbers are used in hyperbole all the time to convey a message and argue a point. I don't see what the issue is.

Oh wait. It's that 6,000,000 Jews died in the Holocaust. That's what the connection is, right? Are you a Holocaust denier now too? In addition to everything else?

[–]Jesus[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There are plenty more references depicting the six million figure well before Hitler came to power, here, watch this: https://invidio.us/watch?v=yBnMtkbWPCs

No, I do not deny the genocide, though I would not call it a holocaust, because it was not a holocaust. The definition of a holocaust does not define what the National Socialists, nor Germany as a whole did to the Jews nor how most Jews died. Yes, I'm skeptical of the 6,000,000 figure and through my research this estimate is much to high, thus we have historical review boards, who, in fact, have unofficially lowered the Auschwitz Concentration camp death counts by MORE THAN HALF. For thirty plus years, the number of deaths in Auschwitz was said by the holocaust industry to be around four million. They ran with this lie, before historians, many who are termed “Holocaust Deniers” as if they deny the genocide in its entirety, proved that the number was indeed impossible. So, they continued to call these same historians “holocaust deniers” whilst they lowered the number by more than half!! How nice of them, whilst they continue to pass laws to jail anyone who even questions the historical accuracy or their provable inaccuracies. All in all, most so called holocaust deniers, are not deniers at all, and in fact believe a genocide of Jewry took place. Auschwitz Concentration camp and many other concentration camps were for the most part considered work labor camps. Did millions die due to starvation, disease, and grueling labor for the war effort. Yes. But the idea that 6,000,000 died, most by gas chambers and other euthanasia methods is not rooted in fact, and zero physical evidence exists except from the words of the Soviets.

https://www.amazon.com/Holocaust-Industry-Reflections-Exploitation-Suffering/dp/1781685614

^ ^ ^ Finkelstein, a Jew has had the courage to say that the Nazi genocide has been distorted and robbed of its true moral lessons and instead has been put to use as ‘an indispensable ideological weapon.’

The book reveals the corruption that exploits victims as well as Germans. The holocaust reparations scam has turned into a cash cow for selected influential Jewish lobby groups, leaving little or nothing for the survivors. The shake-down of Swiss banks is an embarrassment and disgrace to the United States.

Tirelessly it is propagated by an industry that makes billions off of it.