you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]Vulptex[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

No, demons and spirits and even human rulers are also called אלהים. And the trinity as you know it is a Catholic invention, as are the Bible, hell, physical heaven, the virgin birth, the pastoral epistles, church, the orthodoxy, and all the Roman cultural "morals" they imported.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

What justification do you have for claiming this is true but Catholicism in false? Even these books would have no meaning if the Catholic Church did not canonize the Bible. What makes the Book of Enoch important in your opinion, other than it is related to the Old Testament, which is related to the New Testament, which the Catholic Church canonized?

[–]Vulptex[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I don't think Enoch actually wrote the Book of Enoch, but it does reveal beliefs Jews potentially had at the time. But why do you say a book has no meaning unless the Catholic Church canonizes it? That didn't happen until 2.5 centuries after the last ones were finished, were they all worthless until then? Actually the whole canon idea was a ripoff of Marcion, the ultimate enemy of Catholicism because he caught them red-handed altering the books. But even he wasn't around until well into the second century. The original authors had no idea about a canon, and if that made their work worthless then why bother doing it at all? But no, a canon doesn't change anything. They wrote those things down so we wouldn't forget them over the centuries.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

The book of Enoch might as well be war and peace. The only reason it means anything is because Christianity exists. The only reason it’s not taken as the ramblings of some random guy is because the Catholic Church wrote the table of contents of the Bible, and Enoch is mentioned in the OT.

[–]Vulptex[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

What about before the canonization? What about all the books that didn't make it in?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Those books are not part of God’s Public Revelation. We only know what writings are part of God’s Public Revelation if it’s in the canon. There are tons of spurious writings like the Gospel of Thomas. By what criteria do we decide that something in inspired by God and something is just fanfiction?

My point is you say things like the Trinity is a false teaching, but at the same time care about writings like the Book of Enoch because some of the Bible references it. How do you know Catholic Teaching is false but still believe the Bible it canonized? If the people who wrote the table of contents of the Bible cannot be true, how can the very Bible they say is inspired be true? The Bible did not fall from the sky but someone had to sift through many writing and declare which are inspired, which is not possible unless the person who does it is inspired.

[–]Vulptex[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Or they just picked the ones they liked the most. I in fact listed the Bible as one of the Catholic inventions, because I don't believe it. But just because something ends up in it doesn't mean it's invalidated either, because it was originally separate. And all the writings are spurious, there are undeniably a metric fuck ton of edits and interpolations everywhere, especially in Paul's letters (which is why he talks in word salads and contradicts himself at every turn), and we don't know who the authors of any of the gospels are. John is no more likely to be written by John than Thomas is to have been written by Thomas. Actually Thomas is probably more likely, or at least part of it, because it's in such a primitive form (simply a list of quotes). I don't care about Enoch except what it can reveal about Jewish beliefs at the time, and in my example it shows that they thought גדר האל was a name for Satan.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If Christianity is false, I don't care what Jews believed. Why should I?

Everything we have in Christianity came from the Catholic Church. Even Protestants have to confess this.

[–]Vulptex[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, there were Christians before the Catholic Church. But they were all heretics according to the Catholic Church.