all 36 comments

[–]Tom_Bombadil 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

Nobody decides they don't want to try heroin because they can't get it. Etc.

Anybody can get it, if they want it.

People are far more responsible than they are credited with.
Let families, communities, and the churches deal with their internal social problems.

Governments shouldn't be in the business of banning substances from their citizens. Period.

Government intervention leads to more government intervention.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

I think amphetamines can be good if used sparingly but parents ought to be fully informed before giving it to their kids which they are usually not, don't understand the risks.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Also, ADD, ADHD etc. are vaccine injuries.

[–]jet199 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

They are anti-injuries caused by lack of beatings.

[–]AmericanMuskrat 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I have an ADD diagnosis and also had the super combo beatings deal with extra beatings on the side.

I suspect RoundUp.

[–]Antarchomachus[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

ADD diagnosis here too. Didn't know that was connected to the RoundUp glyphosate stuff, but have little trouble believing it. It's shocking the amount of industrial poison we end up consuming without full knowledge of the damage we are doing to ourselves

[–]AmericanMuskrat 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Didn't know that was connected to the RoundUp glyphosate stuff,

It isn't, but it would fit with the timing and scope. Like the introduction of vaccines is right about the time we started encountering autism, although there are no generally accepted links.

It's shocking the amount of industrial poison we end up consuming

Indeed.

[–]Antarchomachus[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yeah that whole thing... I never questioned any of it until this current vaccine ordeal, but it sounds like it could be a case of can't find what we refuse to look for. There's been a couple multi-million dollar settlements for vaccine induced autism, so the Pharma's that settled must have had some concern about the evidence. The epidemiological data you mention is highly suggestive of a correlation as well. Not definitive proof, but not the conspiracy theory it's made out to be either

[–]AmericanMuskrat 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I never questioned any of it until this current vaccine ordeal

Same here. I thought those conspiracy people were fucking nuts. And I'm not saying they're right, but it's worth taking a really good look into. The timing is there.

There's been a couple multi-million dollar settlements for vaccine induced autism, so the Pharma's that settled must have had some concern about the evidence

Not necessarily. Would you give a homeless man who is bothering you $1, that in this scenario is totally insignificant to you, to go away if your only other option is to spend the next several hours bothered by him?

Kinda the same thing. Companies like that just operate on a much higher monetary level than most individuals. Before he retired my father used to work on billion dollar deals for large companies. He once requisitioned a million dollar SUN computer for a project like you or I might requisition a stapler. Although, I never have requisitioned a stapler tbh.

Plea bargains in court are similar. It makes sense to plea even if you're innocent. It is costly and time consuming to defend your innocence.

[–]Antarchomachus[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You make some good points. I know can fall victim to the confirmation bias thinking of : hey these Pharma guys are liars are criminals, I'm going to drastically lower my bar for analyzing evidence that suggests something similar"

[–]jet199 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There was quite a good documentary in the UK where a bunch of ADD kids were taught mindfulness and most were able to come of their medication. That's points to behaviour and upbringing being the main issue.

[–]AmericanMuskrat 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I like mindfulness, use it myself for pain and insomnia sometimes, but I don't see how it's not disassociation. Disassociated is viewed as a bad thing unless they call it mindfulness. I know they say it isn't the same thing but unless I'm doing it wrong, they're the same thing. I don't know why disassociation is a bad thing. And really, it has to be worse than what the meds do to you, or can do to you, to be a worse option.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

These injuries appeared out of the blue. Timing coincides.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

yeah the vaccines might be useful but shouldn't be given till age 18 when one can decide.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Which ones are useful?

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

good question I guess none of them work and I wouldn't get any personally but I'd want over 18 adults to have the freedom to get a vaccine if they want to.

[–]jet199 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nominative determinism strikes again!

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Also, I'm not saying they're inherently bad. Let people decide for themselves.

[–]Cornfed 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Historically this is not necessarily true. Ease of access often leads to huge percentages of people becoming addicted.

[–]fatman 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

Amphetamines are extremely dangerous if you're a man, you may spend the next 18 hours wanking so hard it hurts.

[–]AmericanMuskrat 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Or fucking until your wife can't walk. Tell her I'm sorry.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Amphetamines are extremely dangerous if you're a man, you may spend the next 18 hours wanking so hard it hurts.

Collateral damage?

[–]jet199 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

The biggest killer disease at the moment is obesity.

Amphetamines can cure that but they are not allowed to be prescribed for fatties because they are too dangerous.

But they are fine for badly brought up kids.

[–]Antarchomachus[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Lmao, you make a hilarious but very valid point.

[–]AmericanMuskrat 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Doesn't seem normal for 8yr olds to sit still for 8 hours, or was that your point? Title has me a little confused.

These meds are mostly used to boost poor performing students. Little Johnny isn't a C student cause he has ADD, he's just dumb. He does better in school on amphetamines like anyone would.

I don't think we should give these drugs to kids at all, but I do believe most amphetamines should be OTC again like they were in the 70s for adults. Not including meth, that should remain prescription only. It's just too much fun and consequently too addictive.

I lost two of my closest friends to meth. I mean, sort of. Amphetamines are rarely fatal as an overdose, it's the damage they do running your body amped up. One suddenly dropped dead at 36, the other was found dead in the morning at 42 as he was getting ready for work.

That was illegal meth too, the legality didn't stop them.

But if they could have just gotten amphetamines instead legally, maybe they'd still be here.

[–]Antarchomachus[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Haha, hey Muskrat, sorry, I can understand the confusion. My point was that 'societally' we accept both this things to be true, but they appear to be mutually exclusive. Just questioning our so called conventional wisdom, and provoking a little debate

But yes, a sub-point was that its not a pathology for an 8 year old to have trouble sitting in a desk for 8 hours a day, it's just inconvenient for the authority figures or as you suggest, parental desire for good grades, and I think that is highly problematic when the solution is powerful drugs.

Kinda outside the scope of my original point, but agree with with you on amphetamines and drugs too. I don't like prohibiting stuff in general - I like to smoke weed, and feel like it's nobody else's business to tell me I can't. On the other hand...amphetamines are way more dangerous and addictive than weed. I had some friends get into that too when I was in my late teens/early 20's, and it turned them in thieving sociopathic junkies until they eventually got off that stuff or I'm sure they wouldve ended up like your friends. This all goes back to my post about the seatbelts I guess, and yeah, I'm not sure where the line should be.

[–]AmericanMuskrat 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

thieving sociopathic junkies

I've heard some truly, truly horrific stories at meetings. It is not a given that junkies steal though. I never did. There are 5 ways to get drugs without money that don't involve fucking anyone over. Some people are just not very good people when push comes to shove.

A lot of heavy drug use does mess with your head, sociopath thing might be unavoidable lol.

I like to smoke weed

Fuck yeah!

[–]chottohen 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Not disagreeing entirely but children diagnosed with ADD, a controversial subject in itself, are usually given Ritalin that is not an amphetamine but has some of the same effects. Sorry to be a Mr. know-it-all. In my opinion Ritalin is way over-prescribed for children and should only be used by adults. 🤪

[–]Antarchomachus[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Was one of those children myself in the 90's sadly.

You are correct Ritalin or methylphenidate in its generic form is widely used and not an amphetamine. Adderall however, is prescribed nearly as often, and IS an amphetamine, dextroamphetamine to be precise.

[–]chottohen 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Do you think your exposure to stimulants as a child made you want them more as an adult? ADD could be some long-term scheme by Big-Pharma to sell Ice years later. But if it makes me grit my teeth and feel GOOD, that's enough for me. They're giving Adderall to kids now? What a waste.

[–]Antarchomachus[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Ya know, I'm not sure, it's definitely possible. It can't possibly be good for a kid with a developing brain, and I am sure there were negative consequences of some sort. At the very minimum it made me more open to the idea of using drugs recreationally when I was a teen - I was already comfortable with using drugs as a crutch to change my mental state, so I didn't have much fear of experimenting with street drugs.

[–]chottohen 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

At the very minimum it made me more open to the idea of using drugs recreationally when I was a teen...

You're right on both counts. The shrinks have been writing too many scripts for way too long. As for me, I never had anything stronger than aspirin till I was seventeen but when the chance came, I took it and never looked back. What I was doing is mostly legal now. I'm not recommending it for everyone but for some of us the straight life is just too harsh to take without a little help, and, overall, I didn't turn out so bad although my mother would not agree.

[–]Antarchomachus[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Lol, I assume by mostly legal now, you are referring to marijuana laws. I think this is related to what we are talking about too. As children in the 90's were starting to be medicated with ADD drugs, the schools were also deep into the DARE stuff. I remember all the propaganda about how marijuana would basically turn you into a heroin addict. When I finally used marijuana, and it was clear that is was not NEARLY as harmful as they made it out to be, it was major turning point for me. Like a typical teenager, I was like 'ooooh man they've been lying about the drugs!, I'm gonna take a bunch of these other drugs, cause they were lying to me!'. Wasted a few years of my life making poor decisions and getting into trouble. I eventually turned things around, but we owe kids better than this.

[–]chottohen 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

So that was your A-ha moment and you never trusted THEM completely again. You know how to tell when they're lying, right? That's right, their mouths are moving. I think you're going to like it here

[–]Antarchomachus[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Bingo!

[–]Antarchomachus[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

oops fact checked myself - adderall is 25% dextroamphetamine, and 75% racemic amphetamine, but you catch my drift.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adderall