Holocaust Denial Arguments: Himmler's order on Dec. 28, 1942 to reduce the death rate in the camps as a priority.

submitted by HibikiBlackCaudillo from (self.conspiracy)

The head of the SS administration office of the camp sent a directive dated Dec. 28, 1942, to Auschwitz and the other concentration camps:

"Camp physicians must use all means at their disposal to significantly reduce the death rate in the various camps."

"The camp doctors must supervise more often than in the past the nutrition of the prisoners and, in cooperation with the administration, submit improvement recommendations to the camp commandants... The camp doctors are to see to it that the working conditions at the various labor places are improved as much as possible."

"The Reichsfhrer SS [Heinrich Himmler] has ordered that the death rate must be absolutely reduced."

Source: Nuremberg document PS-2171, Annex 2. NC&A red series, Vol. 4, pp. 833-834

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[–]HibikiBlackCaudillo[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

In response to Himmler's orders, The SS made a report in 1943 about the decline of the mortality rate. (from 10% in December 1942 to 2.09% in August 1943)

We also have The Red Cross report not finding anything that pointed to a deliberate genocide plan from the Germans... and statements from the Jews themselves, saying that they enjoyed all the conforts of the camps.

[–]Antarchomachus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Had to add something to my post below.

There were many camps, and the conditions were likely worse in some than others. There is credible evidence that Aushchwitz in particular was terrible. There are photos of those people being very undernourished when they are released.

Maybe like you say the Nazi's didn't plan to exterminate the Jews. But are you familiar with the Stanford Prison Experiments? We know people in positions like camp guard dehumanize and mistreat the subjects, they did in the experiment too.

Demonizing a whole race of people, putting them in camps and mistreating them with them dying is bad. It's really bad. This hardly seems worth splitting hairs on where exactly this falls on the scale of evil.

[–]Antarchomachus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I'll grant you that's an interesting executive order. Not sure I would call that evidence that the holocaust never happened. Clearly people were in 'camps' (not good), and clearly the people were dying in the camps (also bad).

I'lll grant its possible popular portrayal of Nazi's is somewhat politicized and all about emphasizing how bad they were. However, I will need much more seriously convincing evidence to entertain the idea that the holocaust never happened, or that those Jews were in the camps voluntarily.

If you force people into camps and 10% of them are dying, this is pretty bad as it is. Riker's Island prison has workout equipment and free meals, but I wouldn't call it a country club. I mean look what we did in Guantanamo bay, it's not hard for me to believe an authoritarian state would do some terrible things.

[–]HibikiBlackCaudillo[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Are you ignoring the fact that the Jews were in nearly every relevant position of authority, some of them tried a communist coup and that spies among their kind were rather common? I'm not going to justify any crime the Germans did against their lives but all they did by stopping them by itself was fight back.

[–]Antarchomachus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

The communist coup I am not aware of, no. I'm always interested to learn more if you have any reading material to suggest. I do know there was a lot of animosity towards the Jews before Hitler ever came to power, and some of this animosity may have been justified. I know Germany had financial troubles post WWI, and the Jews who made up the majority of moneylenders are not very sympathetic figures I will admit. Also fairly certain that like most of the history we learned in school, much of what I have been told is highly dubious.

There is some complexity here I will grant, but it's hard to be sympathetic to the Nazi's. Wholesale rounding up an entire demographic of people is frightening to me, whether it's Jews, the unvaccinated, or anyone else. Tyrants have a habit of gradually widening the scope of who gets labeled an 'other'.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

holocaust didn't happen, if it did there wouldn't be jews in control of us today

[–]Antarchomachus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I mean clearly all the Jews on the planet were not killed this is true, not sure this is proof that Germany never did bad things to Jews

[–]HibikiBlackCaudillo[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Here is something about their role in the communist coup attempts of 1919 and general corruption in Germany:

https://saidit.net/s/C_S_T/comments/vy4/the_jewish_role_in_the_german_communist/

Holocaust Denial is just the conspiracy theory, that the Jews either fabricated or greatly exaggerated the losses and methods of the kills for their own ends. My own belief is that the true kill count can be anywhere between 0 to 10,000.

I don't think any civilian kill was justified either, but the mainstream narratives are so full of shit and biased against the Germans that a lot of people, not just the Jews could be held acountable for a lot of things. You say you can't see the Germans as sympathetic? so do you think the Allied forces were heroes or something? if we conveniently assume that the true kill count is something like 5,000, while a very nasty crime, it objectively isn't the worst crime in the war at all. And what about all the shit the Germans had to endure before the war started? What about the crimes commited by the Soviets and the Allied forces?

The historical accuracy of mainstream revisionists and historians is a fucking joke. Germany was turned into a scapegoat for the war and all its evils. To this day I haven't seen a piece of evidence pointing out an intentional attempt to commit genocide against the Jews. If anything, I'm sure the ridiculous conditions of the camps with whore houses and theaters was held together at least until 1944, probably all the way until the Allies bombed the shit out of the supply lines and caused a crisis in the country despite the protests of the Red Cross. Even the Allied autopsies confirm that disease was the main cause of death in the camps:

https://saidit.net/s/C_S_T/comments/8p9h/holocaust_denial_arguments_the_allied_autopsies/

[–]Antarchomachus 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for the info Hibiki, I will look more into these sources. I am sympathetic to what you are saying here and find it quite reasonable.

Would the allies exaggerate the Nazi crimes? yeah they would. Were the allies hero's? Hell no, I know we were selling weapons to both sides, and only got involved when it became clear that the Allies were going to lose and be unable to pay us for their weapon purchases made on credit. Mainstream history IS a joke, and I am sure a large of amount of German scapegoating happened - its easy to do when racism and camps are involved, because that doesn't inspire much sympathy.

I think a lot more people would give this kind of theory more consideration if it were framed as holocaust exaggerationism/scapegoatism rather than as 'denialism'. Denial is such a loaded word - I think Beauchamp's Terrain Theory has some credibility, but if you look it up on Google you get an a Wikipedia article called 'Germ Theory Denialism' - this puts conspiracy theorists in an impossible position to justify their beliefs to curious individuals