Windsor Tower in Madrid, Spain burned for 20+ hours and never collapsed. No steel frame structure has ever collapsed due to fire, before or after 9/11. On 9/11, 3 collapsed, due to "structural failure from fires".

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[–]package 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (21 children)

... the windsor tower was ~4x shorter than the world trade center towers and hadn't suffered an impact from a 747 and hadn't been doused in burning jet fuel at that impact site and wasn't within 200 feet of an equally sized building that had just collapsed

[–]AlanSmith33 8 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 4 fun -  (20 children)

WTC was designed to withstand an aircraft impact, jetfuel doesn't melt steel beams and the first tower to fall wasn't within 200 feet of any collapsed building. Also, WTC7.

[–]package 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (19 children)

  • Jet fuel, and fires in general, don't get hot enough melt steel beams but absolutely can reach temperatures that negatively impact the rigidity and maximum load of such beams

  • The first one wasn't but the second was, which makes this post's title a bit disingenuous as the three collapses were all part of the same incident

[–]yetanotherone_sigh 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

Indeed. You don't have to "melt steel beams" to get them to buckle. Anyone who knows any kind of structural engineering or metallurgy or blacksmithing or anything knows this.

[–]JasonCarswellPlatinum Foil Fedora 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (17 children)

That doesn't explain the freefall collapse through floors that were NOT on fire, designed and fortified to hold up the entire structure. The mass did not dramatically increase enough to erase physics.

[–]package 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (16 children)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momentum

[–]JasonCarswellPlatinum Foil Fedora 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (15 children)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momentum

I know what momentum is.

When the cue ball strikes the other balls the energy is distributed to disperse them and thus the cue ball and other balls do not travel at the initial velocity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_fall

Free fall means no kinetic momentum or gravitational energy is being distributed (slowing it down) - thus that MASSIVE extreme architecture necessary to hold up the entire structure of BOTH of the TALLEST buildings in the world (in the 70s) just happened to not offer any resistance at all. There was certainly MUCH more at play than just a fire for a few hours - "coincidentally" times three. Even if there was pancaking, it would have been a MUCH slower effect, the external frame of the building would have endured better, and there's little chance anything would have fallen symmetrically.

[–]package 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

You clearly don't have even a clue what momentum is if you think the collapse would be slower and not essentially a free fall. After each successive failure, the next floor down is now taking the weight of all the floors above it in addition to the added force of their momentum as they accelerate downward. Each floor would fail more quickly than the last up to the point were only a small amount of the falling debris is actually encountering any resistance. And the "external structure" of the building does not exist in isolation; it gets pulled inward as the frame that it's anchored to is crushed downward.

[–]JasonCarswellPlatinum Foil Fedora 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (13 children)

Momentum would continue onward without resistance - but there's a fucking skyscraper in the way (plus wind resistance, jk).

You're clearly buying into the propaganda.

[–]package 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Step by step and simplified for the mentally challenged boomer:

  1. A floor collapses. You now have one floor of material in free fall for ~15 feet.

  2. One floor of material impacts the floor below with a greater load that its own weight, as it was just in free fall for ~15 feet and has gained momentum. This is just enough force to cause this floor to collapse as well. You now have two floors worth of material in free fall for ~15 feet.

  3. Two floors worth of debris + the momentum gained from the ~15 foot free fall impacts the floor below, collapsing it much easier than the previous impact. You now have three floors worth of material in free fall for ~15 feet.

  4. At this point so much debris has begun falling that the next floor collapses before all the debris has event hit it. You now have 4 floors worth of debris falling, with an increasing amount of that debris falling a greater distance and gaining more momentum before it impacts some part of the building below. When it does hit, the structure is no longer able to absorb the force and sections below the debris are violently thrown downward with more speed and momentum than they would have had from simply breaking off.

Now go back to the beginning of this comment and add around 1/8th of the weight of the building to the initial falling mass.