all 35 comments

[–]d3rr 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (16 children)

Damn, good one man. This is pretty suspicious. I can't even see a trail of how often a user has done this. Edit: they are still here with an account imo, admins can see the OP

[–]magnora7[S] 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (11 children)

Thanks. Yeah it's odd.

I looked through my top comments in the last year, just do a ctrl+f for "[deleted]" and I see 3-4 threads where the users have deleted the thread (or the username) where I left a comment. So thankfully it's not super common, but I do have to wonder what percent of saidit posts are later deleted soon after... and what percent of those are important stuff like the maxwell thing. It also makes saidit look like we didn't have a big discussion on it, when in fact we did. Definitely seems a bit fishy and strikes me as a weird form of censorship

[–]AXXA 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

A big weakness Saidit inherited from the codebase is that 99% of the time nobody looks at posts that are over a day or two old. Even the 1% of the time when somebody comments on an old post then nobody else sees it. There's no incentive not to delete old posts. An easy fix to the codebase would be to add a tab like hot but with cooldown from the last comment date instead of the post date. That way old posts that are worth discussing would continue to appear.

[–]Horrux 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Excellent idea!!

[–]magnora7[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There's no incentive not to delete old posts.

Sure there is, allowing community participation.

I think the real fix for the issue you brought up is to increase the "hot" ranking as a function of number of comments, instead of just votes. Then more commented stuff would linger around longer.

There's a careful balance between making the front page look non-stale (it needs to change regularly to keep people coming back) and having old threads with lots of comments being seen. But I wouldn't mind stuff with lots of comments hanging out on the 'hot' sort for a bit longer

[–]d3rr 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This is tricky stuff, it's like you want to allow good faith users to retract a post that they messed up, but there's potentially this censorship attack vector as a side effect.

My fix ideas: admins should see deleted posts on a user page, or every damn feed gets an admin version that shows deletions. Or every user has a public deleted posts and deleted comments counter, shown on their userpage by their karma. That's it I'm clocking out. Fuck 2021.

[–]magnora7[S] 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah it is tricky. I agree good faith users should be able to take their names off of things.

Like just an idea but maybe it can remain in the search results, but it can still say [deleted]? So the public can access the public comment section, but the user who posted it doesn't have to have their username attached to it anymore. Because honestly a comment section seems like a community asset, rather than something one user owns.

I'm glad 2021 is over too. Good riddance to it lol. Happy new years!

[–]d3rr 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

or: just keep deleted posts in all of the feeds. it will have the content removed for non-admins as expected.

[–]magnora7[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Sounds good. By 'the content' you mean the username and any selfpost text? Link posts would be unaffected (except username becoming [deleted]), I guess?

However it works out, as long as people can find the public comment sections later, I think that's the main deal.

Anyway, not a super pressing issue or anything, just wanted to bring it to everyone's attention. Back to celebrating new years :)

[–]d3rr 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Yep, username and selfpost text would be gone. I'm just concerned that deleted posts being changed to be in search would not be enough. They are still effectively deleted unless you are highly motivated to find it.

[–]magnora7[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I'm down for that.

Someone deleted a post yesterday and it still appeared on the "hot" list. So I think it's only the "top" list that's affected maybe? If you could just re-add them on "top" sort I think that'd solve most of the issue maybe

[–]d3rr 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

[–]magnora7[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Nice, that's a good way to describe it

[–]Node 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Put it up for adoption. I'd adopt that post.

If that's what's happening, it's pretty tricksy. Can you look at recent orphan posts to see if it's been happening very much?

[–]d3rr 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Can you look at recent orphan posts to see if it's been happening very much?

I shouldn't admit it, but no. It's like poof gone even in admin view. Hopefully I'm missing something.

[–]magnora7[S] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I was only able to link to it because I had a comment in the thread I could go back and look at. Had I not had this to produce the URL, I don't know how one could find it again. And maybe google doesn't index it in to their search engine then either.

So it basically disappears from the internet unless you already know the direct URL or had a comment in that thread...

[–]d3rr 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)


[–]Tom_Bombadil 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Interesting. The link to the info is censored, but the community's commentary and upvotes are also decoupled.

Not quite deleted, but atomized and inaccessible.

I'm tempted to suggest a submission saving feature.

However, I can imagine a scenario where the social credit police are investigating alleged thought credit scores concerns...
Post permanency could also be problematic.

If there was a similar competing post, and this one was upvoted over it, then it could be a comment trap.
It might be worth evaluating the post voting for a quick succession of possible sock puppet upvotes.
This activity could allow a post to overtake a similar one, and later memory hole it.

The wisdom of Saidit's upvote-only format forces would-be manipulator's to focus on alternate tactics.

That censor fruit that's way at the top of the tree.

The sellout stooges at Reddit eagerly censor, and may not have to resort to these tactics.

What was this particular post about?
I suspect Epstein-Maxwell-pedo..

Happy new years. Something.

[–]P-38lightning 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (4 children)

Sorry about that everyone. That's a habit I picked up using reddit. I got tired of those assholes weaponizing your post history so I usually delete my posts and comments after a couple of days. Not all of them but most. I don't even use reddit anymore but I remember really pissing them off when they went to search your history and they couldn't find any. That's another reason I got into the habit.

Anyway, I certainly didn't mean to cause any problems and I'll refrain from deleting my posts in the future.

Happy New Year.

[–]AXXA 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

same here

[–]magnora7[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ah it's cool man, thanks for explaining. I appreciate it a lot. It's not a problem with you, it's really a problem with the design of the system. I was just trying to understand your motivations better for why you deleted it, and what you said makes sense. Thank you for clarifying! Happy new year sir

[–]d3rr 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

What if the code adapted instead to still show your posts, but without your username and post content? A deleted post would still not show under your username/profile feed. It'd be some kind of middle ground compromise.

[–]P-38lightning 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

That would be fine but like I said, it's a habit I picked up from using reddit. IMO it's not necessary here at Saidit. I've never been attacked here because of my post or comment history. They used to do that to me all the time at reddit.

Maybe put the question up for other users to comment on but as far as I'm concerned I'll just continue making posts and leave them up.

Thanks. I appreciate your time.

[–]Chipit 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Yeah, these attackers are getting more and more sophisticated. There are five or six accounts that post all over my threads, always attacking the little guy and defending the powerful.

[–]Foidblaster9000 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (3 children)

Yep. Totally sophisticated accounts attacking your posts.

[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

That neither addressed nor refuted the point. It's just mockery; i.e. an ad hominem attack against Saidit TOS.

[–]Foidblaster9000 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Imagine if we were all banned if we all used the same textbook narcissistic argument tactics that you do/did during discussions on your posts. Imagine how many bans that would be. I bet it makes your fingers tap in glee.

[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I could not have asked for a better demonstration of the harassment and TOS-breaking posts that happen in my threads. Thanks for backing me up.

[–]chottohen 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Here is another technique to silence a user who often posts things that are too close to the truth for a particular interest group. Let's say that this user is aware that there are bad actors out there but doesn't always practice secure Internet protocol. For example, he sometimes doesn't bother to log out, uses a short, easy-to-guess password, one he has used on other sites. Let's say the group he has offended is skilled enough to hack into banks, large corporations or just about anywhere. It would be a piece of cake for them to get into the sloppy user's computer and make a few changes so that user cannot log in to his favorite sites. Then, Mr Sloppy tries to change his password to something more secure but runs into trouble: the site won't let him use the same identity because of the changes that have been made from inside his computer. So, in desperation he changes his username, creates a new, much longer, stronger password and logs back in to a site like saidit, for example. Nobody knows him, he has no reputation, etc. and just gives up. If he does post anything he will probably try not to offend the particular interest group he suspects of getting inside his computer. This is a form of censorship, don't you think? [This is in no way to be interpreted as a criticism of saidit. This is my favorite place on the Internet. So, what was I trying to say? Anything connected to the Internet can be hacked. Take all the security precautions your computer allows. Use a VPN.]

[–]magnora7[S] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Yup. That's one way, but it would be tricky.

Another possibility to find users IP is when someone PMs you a link, pretending it's spam they PM'd everyone. But instead they send each user to a unique link on a server they control. Then they log everyone's IPs, and can connect it to usernames because each user got a unique link.

Watch out for this kind of crap.

[–]chottohen 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's a good idea. Whoever this is—probably a bot—is even trying to gaslight me by moving my cursor around randomly. That happens sometimes when I take a quick look at saidit, then go make a cup of coffee or am away for a few minutes. The first time it happens, it is disturbing. I do not have delusions of grandeur but I have appeared on a certain group's radar a few times, here and on reddit before and they decided to put a bot on me, I think. But it's a time-share sort of thing where it is not always there but it does seem to correlate with whatever I posted recently. If I posted something critical of that certain group then the bot kicks in within a few hours usually. So is this sort of thing usual? And yes, once a year or so ago, someone suspicious sent me a link and I just automatically clicked it, then realized it could be tracking me and quickly clicked away. That's the same technique you mentioned and I think they got me on that one. They sure are out there and it's a little spooky but I won't be put off and know that, for them, I'm not important enough to warrant more than a bot sometimes. Oh, and yes I use whaat I think is a good VPN. Thanks.

[–]Gravi 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

An interesting strategy to promote a big story, get a lot of attention and then presumably disappear, but in the internet, nothing really disappears forever, I find this bemusing but nevertheless all i see is a story that is being promoted and an account that seemingly disappears after it. There shall be people that catch on it and promote it later down the line I believe.

[–]AmericanMuskrat 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I think that same guy just does that, and has been doing that for years now. Makes an account, writes popular comments and posts, only to delete the account.

[–]thoughtcriminal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Anytime I post on r*ddit I delete the account within days, simply because fuck reddit. I guess the obvious solution here would be to modify the code to allow posts by deleted users to reach /top

[–]BravoVictor 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I doubt that happens a lot. You need to build karma to post often, don't you? There's no reason to do that just for one story and then delete an account.

Or are you implying the admins are deleting the account?