Vox.com: "Oh, and face masks? You can pass on them. Masks are only useful if you have a respiratory infection already and want to limit the risk of spreading, or if you're working in a hospital in direct contact with people who have respiratory illnesses." Deleted and sent down the memory hole today

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[–]Velocity 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (18 children)

If everyone wore a mask, we'd have been done with this a long time ago.

Prove your opinion, Karen.

"Right now, in the United States, people should not be walking around with masks," Fauci said during the interview. "There's no reason to be walking around with a mask." He continued, "When you're in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but it's not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is." -Fauci

[–]yetanotherone_sigh 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (17 children)

OK let's take a look at what happened and why.

The upper echelon was caught with its pants down and did not have adequate emergency supplies on hand for a pandemic.

They were extremely concerned about people going out and buying every mask available, hoarding them, and then medical personnel and other essential front line workers would not have enough.

So they deliberately told people a little white lie, a misstatement: "Masks don't help, don't go buy them."

Dr. Fauci later rescinded this statement and explained why they did it, and apologized. He also stated the exact opposite: "Masks work to protect others, and we should all be wearing them."

BTW, what they predicted came to pass exactly: everyone went out and bought up all the supplies, and the hospitals ran short.

So either you are not keeping up with current events, or you are deliberately presenting misinformation as fact.

Now, let's look at what your quote from Dr. Fauci says about the effectiveness of masks. No mask is 100% effective. It's not supposed to be. The R0 rate of infection spread needs to be reduced to below 1. That's all. Then the disease will die out. No one has ever said that masks are 100% effective. They just need to knock it down. Epedemiologists have known this for over 100 years. We have literally over a century of empirical evidence that masks work.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

Would you support the forceful removal and/or jailing of all anti-maskers from your country?

[–]yetanotherone_sigh 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

They should be first given a chance to wear a mask or stay home. The ADA says that you must make "reasonable accommodation" for people with physical disabilities. That does not give them a right to come into your store and spread a potentially fatal disease. "Reasonable accommodation" in this instance could mean curbside delivery or pickup. Contactless transactions are very useful in this case. If they don't want to wear a mask, fine. Don't come in the store, we will bring your groceries to your car in the parking lot. (I used to do OSHA and ADA compliance at my job.)

Then the steps. If people will not comply with the above, they should receive a punishment that would be proportional to the offense. Since this is a public health hazard, the level would vary somewhere between a small fine such as a jaywalking ticket to a felony drunk driving charge. And yes, eventually some people are going to have to go to jail, since they represent a public health threat and they refuse to alter their behavior.

Other countries NAILED this. New Zealand, South Korea, many others. The USA flubbed it so bad it almost looks like they tried.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

I will not argue with a sheep. There are doctors in those countries who give different, logical, reasons for why their numbers are the way they are. You parrot the same shit the news parrots. Do you like the kool-aid? Is it cum-flavored? You are following totalitarians into hell.

I like how you only focused on my comments on the masks, and not the super-sensitive tests they use to justify the numbers and lockdowns. In the end, you won't be convinced because your God of the Established GovCorp decrees that you are on the moral high-ground. My grandfather died because of these lies. We didn't get to see him in time because of these lies. He died alone, surrounded by masked-strangers, because of these lies. More people have been hurt by the lockdowns than they realize, and that's because you only hear from their paid "experts" on the TV. Science is full of debate. That is how we know what the opposing experts think. You don't hear the other side, so you think there is some sort of consensus on this issue.

Drink the kool-aid. It isn't cum, I promise.

[–]yetanotherone_sigh 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Your grandfather died of coronavirus? And you are still anti-mask?

Let's talk about not only the flu pandemic of 1918, but also the entire century that has happened since. We have literally decades and decades of empirical evidence that masks work. Why do doctors and nurses wear masks when going into surgery if they don't work? Why do mine workers and asbestos removal crews and construction workers wear masks if they don't work? Can you IMAGINE the millions of malpractice lawsuits and OSHA claims if they didn't? I can. I used to do OSHA compliance.

This is just like the anti-mask crowd in mid 2020. "Masks build up CO2." "Masks block your oxygen supply." (But somehow they don't block the virus... which one is bigger, the virus, or an O2 molecule?) I literally had an argument about "Mask Mouth" with an idiot on Voat that went on for like a week. They just made shit up without any evidence. So the doctors showed that you can wear one, two, three, maybe 10 masks, and hook yourself up to a pulse oximeter. They did this on camera and their blood oxygen saturation didn't go down at all. One doctor did it and ran a marathon with a mask on! I actually own one and I offered to loan it to some of these people to prove that their oxygen level does go down. What do you know, no one took me up on it. Because they don't want to go against empirical evidence that you can reproduce yourself, at home. It would break their worldview and the delusion they have invested in.

If you are gonna make stuff up, have evidence that backs it up. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you believe that masks don't work, you are going against a century of empirical evidence, laboratory research, science and engineering, and real world experience. The burden of proof is on you to prove it wrong with your own empirical evidence. You can't just wave your arms and yell "Fake news!".

BTW regarding your views of what happened in other countries. They had strict lockdowns, good medical procedures, mandatory masks, and contact tracing. The US hasn't done any of that shit.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

I didn't say anything about masks cutting down on oxygen supply. Nice strawman. Masks don't work unless you do exactly what doctors do when they wear them in the hospital. People don't do that, they don't even wear gloves! Not even in the countries you are so dickhard about.

The burden of proof is on those who are imposing their will upon others. I do not harm anybody when I leave my home without a mask, just like those who don't wear gloves but do wear a mask aren't harming anybody. You live in la-la-land.

[–]yetanotherone_sigh 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Incorrect. I already have the proof on my side. You are claiming that it is incorrect, even though there is a century of empirical evidence that it is not. YOU have the burden of proof to prove otherwise. That's the way science works.

Edit: I put in the oxygen / CO2 / Mask Mouth argument to let you know this isn't my first rodeo. I've spent months on Voat arguing with people who seem to be hell bent on their own destruction. I seem to be doing the same here. So unless you produce evidence that I am wrong - empirical, repeatable evidence, then GTFO.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

DUDE, people do not use the masks how doctors use them. Why is that so hard for you to fucking understand? When doctors go in for surgery, they wash their hands, put on fresh gloves and a fresh mask, do their business, then DISPOSE of the gloves and mask and wash their hands again.

Are you really trying to argue that every Kiwi and S. Korean is doing this as well? Fuck you. I never once said masks are harming people. I said the lockdowns are. They harmed me and my family. Fuck you.

[–]Node 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

That guy is nuts. He's like a human bot that's been programmed with "the correct beliefs", and he lacks the capacity to challenge them. This is the state of humanity.

[–]Node 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

How about the fraction of people who should avoid getting the flu stay home instead.

[–]yetanotherone_sigh 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I totally agree! I have had enough of people who refuse to wear masks because of a so-called medical exemption. Citing things like COPD and other lung issues. All of those people should definitely stay home. They are not well enough to be in public during the pandemic.

[–]Node 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You've got a pretty good troll going.