/s/AltRight_Memes has banned me, without explanation. Read on..

submitted by JasonCarswell from self.censorship

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[–]magnora7 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

while an occasional discussion seems like a reasonable effort to throttle it

That's what the strikes are

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Magnora, you know I've never had a problem with anyone here (or anyone here me, honestly.. I've only had positive interactions and conversations/debates in the last 4 months). But the negativity and shit-slinging really needs to stop.

I don't know much about Jason or his views, but I do agree with him about this:

"Yet you talk at me. You can't have both. If you don't want a discussion, don't talk. SaidIt is NOT about left and right - it's about anti-extremes. That post was clearly about taking it to absurd extremes."

I've noticed more and more, people are no longer ignoring things they don't like/aren't interested in, and instead they're attacking and insulting.

I've also noticed people are now discouraging discussion for petty one or two-liners. I really liked this site and thought it was a fit for me after years on Voat, but something is going wrong and the Pyramid of Debate is not being upheld imo :\ This whole thread is an example of that.

[–]magnora7 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

I want it to be lessened as well, but how? I guess I can become more hard-nosed about applying the pyramid of debate, but that's just going to result in many bans and a lot of angry users saying they were banned unjustly... the shit-slinging is a form of attack against saidit, and I recognize it as such, but the attack works because it's hard to differentiate destructive shit-slinging from a normal user having a bad day.

If you were me, what would you do to resolve the negativity and shit-slinging? I'm open to hearing new tactics and ideas.

Part of me just thinks that maybe it's impossible not to have when we're trying to have the full spectrum of ideas here, there will be disagreements. And that's fine. But it's just a decorum issue, and I don't know how to force people to have good decorum.

I'm kind of thinking of maybe someday starting a second saidit-like website alongside saidit, but with very strict decorum rules. Like floor-of-the-senate levels of decorum. Similar to hackernews. Would there be interest in this? Then we can have the best of both worlds

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

If I were you, I'd ask the community at large for solutions on issues in a dedicated public forum sub. You can embrace, discard, or mull over all their suggestions on how to govern better. More brains is better. Doesn't mean you loose your clear vision.

Initial topics could obviously be pyramid discipline, what defines decorum, what defines sliding, what defines shit-slinging/posting. Having solid examples will help clarify and sharpen the big grey line.

Maybe like stepping in the gutter or grey line might happen on occasion, those who dwell there can be asked to leave. Again, defining "dwelling" should be discussed too.

I like the elevated second SaidIt idea. A lot. Hopefully it would minimize memes and such. I wouldn't be tempted to engage or preach or sling, and would likely migrate most of my efforts there. But IMO, it would be starting with a couple disabilities unless 1) there were clearly defined rules 2) with a democratic forum to discuss the governing. That doesn't mean you'd lose your ultimate power veto, it just means things can be discussed with hopes for effective improvements and evolutions.

Also, IMO, the subs should be voted upon - for their naming conventions, topic-worthiness, classifications, etc. to avoid repeats, unwise decisions, spontaneous impulses, and infinite empty or rarely used subs - if those are things to avoid.

All this and more could/should be discussed in a next-level sub about the potential and development of a spin off. Your code and administration are great, but your community is your greatest asset and should be mined for their precious ideas that you can cultivate and steer.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If I were you, I'd ask the community at large for solutions on issues in a dedicated public forum sub.

Many people have for a long time proposed many things and been promptly shut down based on subjective and unevenly applied feels. A lot of people were directly invited here by magnora through other sites (myself from listening to him on a podcast) and feel tricked after spending some time on the site and seeing how he admins it.

Is there any reason to believe such an action wouldn't be just a containment sub to keep people busy bitching in a single place that can be ignored?

Initial topics could obviously be pyramid discipline, what defines decorum, what defines sliding, what defines shit-slinging/posting. Having solid examples will help clarify and sharpen the big grey line.

"More rules won't work" -Pretty much /u/magnora7

Unless he has changed his stance, a suggestion of a site governed by rules, evenly applied demands to behaviour and respectful debate is really shady.

Is there any reason to believe such an action wouldn't be just a containment sub to keep people busy bitching in a single place that can be ignored?

I like the elevated second SaidIt idea. A lot.

That's probably the only time I've seen magnora come up with a suggestion that is based on evenly applied rules and that makes me very weary of it.

But I'm not going to deny that the user revolt that's been going on for the last few weeks could have convinced him that people aren't naturally inclined to behave, and more rules than "be nice" is required

Cautiously optimistic.

Your code and administration are great,

Code and customization of existing software solutions are top notch. Administration is more shit than a turd in a septic tank.

your community is your greatest asset and should be mined for their precious ideas that you can cultivate and steer.

Very well said!

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A lot of people were directly invited here by magnora through other sites (myself from listening to him on a podcast) and feel tricked after spending some time on the site and seeing how he admins it.

I completely feel the same way. I came here from the Tin Foil Hat podcast with lots of conspirophilia and laughs. M7 explosively without warning threatened me in the summer for completely unfair, unclear, unsubstantiated and/or false reasons, and now I don't give much of a shit, whereas I was completely dedicated to SaidIt. I don't know what I did to irk him, and he hasn't explained it. Maybe he just doesn't want dynamic characters around. Maybe I legit did something. Maybe he's peacocking. Maybe he's stressed. I have no idea.

Is there any reason to believe such an action wouldn't be just a containment sub to keep people busy bitching in a single place that can be ignored?

Actually, that is in large part why I suggest it. Contain all the drama/sanitation work. BUT if it's ignored it will inevitably leak or maybe explode. IMO, it would be far easier to deal with all the drama in a tribunal of M7 + D3 + community opinion.

"More rules won't work" -Pretty much /u/magnora7

Maybe. Maybe not. If we don't discuss them we'll never know. Maybe we don't need rules. Maybe we need lots of examples, documented in a wiki, with links, to offenses, etc. A semi-permanent record of precedents to support the legitimacy of the Pyramid of Debate and the ever so few rules.

Unless he has changed his stance, a suggestion of a site governed by rules, evenly applied demands to behaviour and respectful debate is really shady.

Agreed. People keep using decorum as if there's an established definition - meanwhile there's certainly an abundance of decorum-free activity unpunished.

That's probably the only time I've seen magnora come up with a suggestion that is based on evenly applied rules and that makes me very weary of it.

Ya, I have my doubts too. He just told me I have two strikes. I don't remember a second one, and I certainly don't feel the summer one was even legitimately warranted. (Further, that sub with only one post was locked for months. That issue was swept under the rug and I got no day in court so to speak. It was his way or no way, in a "community".) And I think it's immature to be keeping strikes this long. I've been here for 14-15 months and apparently slipped twice in all that time, meaning the rest of my contributions are for shit, null and void, if I "slip" again, by his arbitrary discretion alone. Doesn't fill one with confidence in the leader, much less confidence for the future of this community of arbitrariness, ruled by a fear of becoming unpopular for enforcing site-wide rules.

But I'm not going to deny that the user revolt that's been going on for the last few weeks could have convinced him that people aren't naturally inclined to behave, and more rules than "be nice" is required

I totally missed that revolt. Do you mean the misguided efforts of Snow? I've seen waves of Reddit refugees and misbehavors come and go and/or acclimate. Is that what you mean?

Also, few people read the terms and rules of sites. Why bother when you can follow the abundance of examples? And what unenforced examples there are...

Cautiously optimistic.

Indeed.

Code and customization of existing software solutions are top notch. Administration is more shit than a turd in a septic tank.

LOL. I was trying to be nice and lumped them together. Ultimately, IMO, here's the problem... M7D3 are great guys, great truther wisdom, great skills, but not great leaders, yet could be. (Also, I am no leader and can admit it.) They have a fucking forum and don't even bother to ask for leadership assistance. WHAT? That would have been one of the first things I'd do!