When Men Behave Badly—A Review. Researchers found an association between mens chosen targets and women’s self-reported frequency of having been sexually victimized in the past. This suggests that women suffering from unwanted sexual encounters inadvertently emit cues that predatory males can detect.

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[–]NeedMoreCoffee 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (15 children)

Thanks for this. I just looked into some talks this guy gave. It's a bit unsettling to know that as a woman just having a gait thats smaller respective to your size puts you on the radar of sexual predators.

Since i've been harassed a lot in my life I am going to check this out and see what else he has to say about this. But so far is information is quite enlightening

[–]Chipit[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

Wow. Usually I would expect an angry rejection of the idea. Women are always innocent, etc. Refreshing attitude. And if we pursued this knowledge we could help women to avoid predation. This is why it's so harmful that feminists censor so enthusiastically.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (13 children)

I think you have a very weird view of what feminism is and how women react to things. You might have hung out with the crazy "intersectional feminists" bit too much who a lot of us really do not like because they are bonkers. They are loud, stupid and a cancer on feminism.

Why would any actual feminist be angry and try to cencor a scientist who has studied for years why men and women act the way they do? Especially one that collaborates what actual feminists have been saying for decades and has information on what puts you on the radar of predators thus advocating for women's safety?

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

I think you have a very weird view of what feminism is and how women react to things.

I think he has a very reasonable expectation that mainstream feminists and possibly most women share a belief that women should not take any responsibility in phenomena like workplace “sexual harassment” or date rape scenarios. I believe a lot of these instances are in fact not crimes and perhaps not even unethical behaviors.

Why would any actual feminist be angry and try to cencor a scientist who has studied for years why men and women act the way they do?

Because any evolutionary biologist bringing the facts about male female interactions from a neutral scientific perspective will completely undermine the core tenets of the feminist movement. Not just 3rd wave trans affirming feminism. The whole enchilada. Which is a loss of political power for feminists. Feminists do not demand equal treatment, they demand special indulgences for women.

There’s no reason to expect earning power to be equal between men and women because males are far more economically productive. They evolved that way. Any society that encourages women to be economically independent of men and not have children is doomed to collapse.

Women who claim that they should be able to wear sexy or body flattering outfits to the office and expect no “sexual harassment” (e.g. “You look hot today” or “Lets go out, can I have your number” ) are absurd. If you do not want sexual attention, it is your responsibilty to present yourself in a more subdued professional way.

Women use their sex all the time to get special considerations that would never be given to males. Feminism is just one of those strategies.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

I wore a plain, non-sheer t-shirt to my doctor's appointment last week. A shirt that by nature of having large breasts stretched at that particular area. My doctor looked directly at them no less than 5 times. It didn't require sexy attire for him to very obviously ogle my boobs (quite the opposite), and it doesn't require sexy attire to be sexually harassed.

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

So I guess I feel like, why should you have the expectation of not having anyone look at your boobs?

We are beginning to police which direction the eyeballs in peoples heads are pointing. Was this really an assualt? A psychologically abusive experience? Or a minor annoyance? Men are biologically programmed to look at boobs.

At what point did women come to expect that it was their right never to have a man oogle their boobs except for the exact moment women deemed it okay? This is nuts.

If you are a child or a mentally child-like adult, maybe you should have this consideration. But if you believe you are an equal of men psychologically then a look is nothing.

I am asking you to disregard some of the notions we were trained with, that any sexual signals from men are somehow a violation and that all these scenarios demand policing.

Muslims solve this problem by never allowing females to be alone with strange men. They have females hide their entire form under sheets. They feel women are like children that can’t be trusted not to be manipulated by strange men. They don’t expect women to be responsilble for their own sexual behavior. They just keep them on lockdown.

We got rid of monogamy and a lot of the old rules that would have prevented some of the sexual conflicts we see now. Women —feminists— demand explicitly that they be treated equally, but in reality they are expecting implicitly special privileged treatment. Men are held to Victorian sexual standards while women are not held to any standards at all. Its madness.

[–]Airbus320 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Islam is right about females :)

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I actually don’t agree.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/mind/monogamous-societies-superior-to-polygamous-societies

The polygamous “package” of societal traits is a shit show IMO.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

why should you have the expectation of not having anyone look at your boobs?

Nearly everyone looks at boobs. Hell, I've been accidentally obvious when seeing a woman with obvious breast implants.

Was this really an assualt? A psychologically abusive experience? Or a minor annoyance? Men are biologically programmed to look at boobs.

No. It WAS, however, extremely unprofessional and became increasingly uncomfortable as the visit went on. I mean, damn.. he did it once-- you got your eyeful Buddy--move back on the the visit. I understand doing it once, but we have the gift of peripheral vision and therefore subtlety. I also fully well understand that men evolved with the ability to control themselves along with their sexual urges. As I'm there for a follow-up visit that I paid out of pocket for-- a service, am married, have expressed zero interest, and am not there to hop directly onto his dick, I don't see why you or him would find this to be appropriate at all. Equal treatment in this regard doesn't really have a match. I guess I could have ogled the baggy crotch region of his pants? This isn't Victorian levels of standards, this is an expectation of self control that I've watched plenty of men be capable of showing.

Muslim men solve this with abuse, neglect, and FGM, while keeping their women in those bedsheets. They're not seen as children, they're seen as property and baby machines. This wasn't always the case though, or at least not enforcing the dress code. Their culture has regressed significantly, and they're not even comparable to any Western cultures at all-- it's not a great comparison.

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

It depends on how strict your definition of appropriate is. And I didnt observe the event. But Im not inclined to assume this was harrassment or unethical behavior. I consider looking but not touching to be control. I think that it may be difficult for some men to control where they look. Staring at boobs could be considered impolite, but again Im not convinced he was aware of doing it in an excessive way.

When I say psychologically the equal of men, I dont mean mimicking men’s behavior and staring at their crotch. I mean that if you can determine that this person is not behaving threateningly, does not mean to seduce you or blackmail you in to sex, and is not intentionally trying to make you uncomfortable then you can dismiss it a quirk of male biology than men are programmed to ogle and sometimes find it hard to conceal.

But staring at boobs seems like a fairly non-threatening behavior. We keep ratcheting up the definition of appropriate. Everybody is zero tolerance everything. And it is absolutely having an effect on our freedoms.

I can’t help but notice that as women gain a larger and larger share of decision making positions, we are increasingly being mommy-ed and monitored for whether we cause hurt feelings. But the world is full of hurt feelings and inappropriateness but we dont have to “do something” about all of it. I think we need a bit more benign neglect in the area of sexual harassment.

After the Me too movement, Im just not inclined to take any accusation of sexual harassment seriously. Its become completely incentivized.

The differences between a patrilineal polygamist society like islam and a patrilineal monogamist society are interesting and , it turns out, genetic. Polygamist societies tend to reward sexual agressiveness as well as violence with reproductive success. Patrilineality demands that males who care for their offspring can ensure their paternity. Hence guarding of females.

In monogamist societies males still have to ensure their own paternity, but males are also sexually restricted. So male traits that are favored in monogamy are lower violence and lower sexual agression. In addition females enjoy higher status because sole wives have more clout over their men.

Unfortunately America and Europe stopped being monogamist societies about 50 years ago so its a matter of time before white males lose that set of monogamist behavioral traits. Males with polygamist traits will be favored in a wild west anything goes sort of regime. All these behaviors are genetic and make sense within certain environmental contexts. Eventually the bill will come due

“The puzzle of monogamous marriage”

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rstb.2011.0290

[–]Trajan 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I suspect you're in the minority. In my encounters with feminists, including liberal or radical feminists, I've not seen positive responses on the matter.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Usually the loud ones aren't the majority. Just loud.

My personal experience if there are adjectives in front of feminism approach with caution lmao. Liberal and intersectional are the worst ones. If you see that just turn around and don't even bother engaging. They are the same types that are antifa or talk a lot about privilige or follow critical race theory or have BLM or ACAB, marxism in their profiles. They define themselves differently but it's in essence the same fruitloops that ruin everything for every one else.

[–]Trajan 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You don't think you're getting into 'no true feminist' territory there? I can't recall any significant feminist group of feminist who'd entertain the idea that a woman can have any causative role in being assaulted. The closest I've found is at the extreme such as agreement that walking naked through a bad neighbourhood is a terrible idea. Patriarchy as a feminist concept makes it pretty difficult to blame anything else.

The reason we add prefixes to feminism is because there are so many variations. For example, libertarian feminism is in a minority and doesn't have the collectivist bent of mainstream feminism.

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The whole thing is a scam to let women off the hook from making any mature adult decisions.

You got pregnant? Its not your fault. You get to commit murder on a human being until up to 9 months gestation which is clearly a person. But dont suggest that any of these women should keep their legs together as an alternative to executing babies. Patriarchy!

This “slut walk” phenomenon. Women should be permitted to dress or behave in anyway they see fit. Women cannot even be guilty of acting sexually inappropriately. No rules for women

https://files.catbox.moe/nx2oaj.jpg

See, we can do whatever we want and there’s nothing you can do about it.

The woman that Harvey Weinstein was convicted of raping, asked him to her apartment, led him to her bedroom and admitted to faking an orgasm at the end of intercourse. That is a massive precedent for the total unaccountability of women.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Are you going to tell me that women who claim they are liberal feminists and slur other women, say men in frocks are women, that sex work is empowering and kinks should not be shamed including rape kinks are really feminists?

I know why we add prefixes , but usually its to shit on feminists who actually get shit done and complain about them being "white feminists"

Every prefix has its own issues that most of us want nothing to do with.

[–]Trajan 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Are you going to tell me that women who claim they are liberal feminists and slur other women, say men in frocks are women, that sex work is empowering and kinks should not be shamed including rape kinks are really feminists?

Definitely not. I'm totally with you on that. A man doesn't become a woman through surgery and hormones any more than an Impala becomes an off-road vehicle if you stick really big tires on it. Sex work is a terrible industry, largely populated by the damaged and the desperate.

The prefixes have been around for a very long time, arising as feminists tailored feminism to suit their personal issues. Political lesbianism was the most hilarious version. Pretty much second wave onwards saw the codifying of the ideology from which sects grew.