Why do you think the holocaust didn't happen?

submitted by ScythianRabbit from self.altrightwebm

Hey SNS Scythian Rabbit here.

This is one thing I disagree with the general alt right, I think a lot of Jews did die in ww2 due to crimes against humanity. Now much of the official holocaust narrative is BS, gas chambers, mengele's human experiments and the shower room stuff were clearly allied atrocity propaganda.

But I think a lot of Jews did disproportionately die due to other reasons. The causes Jews died in millions(my estimate was that 4.9 million Jews died) are

  1. Forced labor: Its no secret that the Germans used slave labor to build factories, weapons and infrastructure. The Japanese did it and prisons do this today. 3 million Soviet pows simply died in the camps. It makes no sense that Jews wouldn't too. I think many died due to forced labor as the Germans worked them to death or took them on death marches.

  2. Starvation: This is the real killer, nearly 3 million Soviet POWs died, most of them from starvation and the same is true for the Jews. Its undeniable that most Jews were captured and funneled into concentration camps. Allied blockade and bombing caused starvation and the Germans confiscated food from the occupied territories to feed their own. This caused food shortage for the camp prisoners who were allowed to stave. Over ten million people in German occupied lands died in starvation, its only rational that the Jews suffered this too.

  3. Shootings and persecutions: Its no secret that the Einsatzgruppen in tandem with local militias shot communists, Jews and partisans. In fact most of the mass shootings and murders of Jews and communists were done by Ukrainian and Baltic nationalists who being armed by the Germans ruthlessly persecuted these two groups, groups that had tortured and mass murdered their kin less than a decade ago. At Babi Yar 70,000 Jews were shot by the Einsatzgruppen and there are bodies as well.

The SS had a penchant for mass murders and shootings, think of malmedy, Wormhoudt and countless other examples. The SS alone perhaps shot and killed hundreds of thousands in their long war. As they hated Jews more than all else it makes no sense that they'd make an exception to them, they didn't flinch at killing fellow Germanic English, forget Jews.

  1. War related disease and displacement: Millions died due to disease and exposure to the elements that came as a result of the war. The pale of settlement saw the heaviest fighting of WW2 with Kiev, Uman, Kursk, Minsk, Bagration, the Dneiper campaign, Stalin's ten blows, Warsaw, bautzen all heavy battle occurring there. It makes sense that the populations there would under go heavy reduction as they did.

Finally there's another reason, the number of Jews don't add up, there were 13 million Jews in 1939, today there are about 14 million, there's no way a group with good birth rates failed to increase their population at all in 80 years, there was a mass culling of Jews.

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[–]Tom_Bombadil 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Old Newspaper Reads Six million Jews Died in 1915 1938 Before Hitler was in power

Plus if anyone who has any old dictionaries or encyclopedias (1970 or older) you can look up the Holocaust any there's no mention of this WW2 tragedy.

Then it slowly starts appearing in reference books.

There was an attempt to rewrite history.

Look up the Jewish Bolshevik atrocities in the Soviet Union if you want to hear about real genocide.

Stalin, Lenin, and Trotsky were all Jewish.

So there's that...

Also, the foundation of your argument is that Jews also died too . I don't disagree.

The propaganda was intended to demonize Germany as a uniquely evil country because it was an extermination regime.

Well, it turns out that it was a regular old imperialistic regime just like the rest.

Last, it's worth mentioning the fact that there aren't any "Also Died Too" Museums, but there are "Holocaust" museums all around the world. School age kids are bused to these bogus museums and told nonsense.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

IMHO the simplest is the fact that (((they))) tried multiple times to make the world believe they were victims of big bad white men, until finally they succeeded in WW2. They tried at least 250 times at various times and places before 1936. Here: https://www.bitchute.com/video/InfoisVbVuFc/

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Page not found.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Apologies and thanks for reporting that. The video was marked "Private" or "hidden" or whatever. You should be able to view it now?

[–]bobbobbybob 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

i read http://holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com

[–]Airbus320 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Ok

[–]send_nasty_stuff 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think a lot of Jews did die in ww2 due to crimes against humanity.

Holocaust revisionists do not deny that jews died in Europe during ww2 and in some cases were totally innocent (neither spies nor combatants).

Now much of the official holocaust narrative is BS, gas chambers, mengele's human experiments and the shower room stuff were clearly allied atrocity propaganda

That's what the holocaust is and if you said what you just said publicly you'd be called a holocaust denier and could possible be jailed in more than a dozen countries. The holocaust isn't a historical event up for adjustment and debate like other historical event. It's an industry and a narrative and the only people allowed to adjust it and correct it are a group of 11 or so approved historians.

But I think a lot of Jews did disproportionately die due to other reasons. The causes Jews died in millions(my estimate was that 4.9 million Jews died) are

Jews dying for 'other reasons' is again not disputed by revisionists. It's actually a key component of holocaust revisionism. You're 4.9 number is high though. The highest I've heard from a credible source is 2.3 from Irving and he's not particularly wedded to that number. My guess is 500-750k died and half of those were in some way probably tied into spying, Marxist subversion and in a fair court the nat socs could probably argue and prove they were combatants. The other half died from typhus, starvation and yes some probably died from cruelty/murder in a chaotic war theater. In fact this is why there were so many Jews in concentration camps. They sought out the camps to be protected from the lawlessness and hostility of war.

Forced labor: Its no secret that the Germans used slave labor to build factories, weapons and infrastructure.

Ok right of the bat I'm going to stop you. I don't think you've actually engaged with the revisionist sources. This isn't slave labor. This is prison labor. That's a HUGE difference. Many Jews choose not to work in camps and instead just engaged in the maintenance and running of the camp accouterments. The alternative was living in German society that was hostile to them for conspiring to bring the Americans into WWI. I'm not really sure how much I can really engage with you here if you haven't actually dug down on the revisionist arguments.

Let me catch you up on the revisionist sources.

First there's David Cole (jewish) who looked at aushwitz. Here's a shortened video on his findings.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/fH3nQI45kiQW/

The next big guy is of course Earnst Zundel. Here's an outstanding interview he did with an Israeli. LOTs of intersting stuff in this doc. I highly recommend you take the time to listen.

https://archive.org/details/ErnstZundelInterviewedByAnIsraeliJournalist1996G

Next here's a thread that caused quite a stir on debatealtright.

https://old.reddit.com/r/DebateAltRight/comments/9bi1rv/the_holocaust_did_not_happen/

I'd encourage you to read the unz article that reddit deleted from the thread.

http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/

Then after you've looked at the unz article you might want to read through the comments in the thread.

The Japanese did it and prisons do this today. 3 million Soviet pows simply died in the camps. It makes no sense that Jews wouldn't too

Again, revisionists do not deny Jews died in camps. How many and how and whether or not is was a directed cleansing 'plan' by nat soc elites is where all the drama is.

Soviets, Japanese, Germans, and Americans all run war camps very differently. To conflate them is a bit silly. We also have the problem that there's a VERY high incentive for governments to lie about what they do to prisoners so ALL gov sources and gov histories about these war camps need closely examined and cross referenced. Here's a look at what people on the ground have shared about the German camp system.

https://holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com/

I think many died due to forced labor as the Germans worked them to death or took them on death marches.

You'd need to provide a source for this. The reports, images and video in the deprogramingcourse website refute this 'worked to death' claim. Jews themselves refute this work to death claim. There are thousands talking about playing in the 'death camp' symphony or putting on plays.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/EsXm99fExImK/

If the survivors are to be believed then certainly the ones talking about atrocities should be offset by the ones talking about brothels and orchestras so that neutral observers can make an informed decision. This is how you shape consensus; this is how you manufacture consent. You simply hand select the testimonies that fit the narrative. Finkelstein talks about this opinion manufacturing industry is his book The Holocaust Industry.

And let's not even get into all of the outlandish claims by the survivors who were promoted.

https://media.8ch.net/file_store/636e21115360cec3bb795ddeee5fc286f7de5b63a61cffdde1718968ade2b26d.jpg

Starvation: This is the real killer, nearly 3 million Soviet POWs died, most of them from starvation and the same is true for the Jews.

Again. Starvation is not denied by revisionists. It's the how and why. Most starvation in the camps comes as the end of the war and it was due to supply line disruption from allied bombing. Obviously Germans are going to prioritize German soldiers in the field and German families in the Reich over Jews and war prisoners. If you consider that ethnic cleansing so be it but IMO it's just a result of the chaos at the end of the war and the immoral civilian bombing started by Churchill. Stalin on the other hand starved civilians and prisoners in a more strategic/corporal way.

If you want to see agressive ethnic cleansing through starvation read about the Rhind Meadows.

https://ww2gravestone.com/an-american-rhine-meadows-camp-guard-speaks-out/

That's what weaponized starvation encampment looks like. If Hitler had those aspiration he could have started those camps in '39 or even earlier and there's no evidence of that.

Germans confiscated food from the occupied territories to feed their own. This caused food shortage for the camp prisoners who were allowed to stave. Over ten million people in German occupied lands died in starvation, its only rational that the Jews suffered this too.

Ah. That's what you do in war but that's also a result of farm production going way down because farmers where out fighting war. There's not only less food but armies (on all side) confiscate the food. Yes Jews certainly died from this war famine like everybody else but the world almanac of Jewish population does not reflect 6, 5, or even 4 million Jews dying during this period.

https://media.8ch.net/file_store/0558867345c1855aaefaa177751d9a345b323c1cedd7a9015c4aabef45773ac7.jpg

Yet on the other hand we do see Jewish population going up in British Palestine, the United States, Britain, etc. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to see what's going on here.

Shootings and persecutions: Its no secret that the Einsatzgruppen in tandem with local militias shot communists, Jews and partisans.

And why not? They had literally stood in the streets of Germany with machines guns years earlier not to mentioned collaborated with foreign nations to undermine the Reich or do you not believe in a sovereign nations right to execute traitors?

https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1405992204336.jpg

The SS had a penchant for mass murders and shootings, think of malmedy, Wormhoudt and countless other examples.

The SS had a penchant for winning a conflict. The SS was a military unit. Killing people is part of winning wars. I know you understand European history. I've seen you write detailed posts about European wars/conflicts/battles. What's up with all this 'murder' language. Show me a nation that gives up it ability to execute traitors/enemies/combatants/subversives and I will show you a nation that's about to collapse and be taken over by another nation willing to 'murder.'

As they hated Jews more than all else it makes no sense that they'd make an exception to them, they didn't flinch at killing fellow Germanic English, forget Jews.

This is a HUGE misconception. Antisemitism in Germany was almost unheard of before the Treaty of Versailles and the German diplomats learning about the Balfour declaration. You'd think if there was so much German 'antisemitism' then Jews wouldn't have been allowed to own so much industry, media and academic seats in German society. In fact there are some eerie parallels with American society.

Finally there's another reason, the number of Jews don't add up, there were 13 million Jews in 1939, today there are about 14 million, there's no way a group with good birth rates failed to increase their population at all in 80 years, there was a mass culling of Jews.

Again revisioninsts don't disagree with jews dying in Europe and jews being displace from Germany. They disagree with the 'culling' language. Hitler explicity stated he wanted Jews out of europe and attempted to find places to peacefully resettlethem. Why would someone who wants to cull jews from the earth work to resettle them?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

Why would a guy who was constantly asked by subordinates what to do with the Jews continue to issue orders not to harm them and to wait until the war is over?

This post of yours Scythian is highly suspicious. I'd strongly encourage you to go through these materials. Please do not continue to misrepresent what revisionists are saying. It's too common a tactic of our enemy. You wouldn't want to be confused with our enemy now would you?

[–]ScythianRabbit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My thought is that 4-4.5 million Jews couldn't have vanished into thin air and the 1948 account can't be accurate because the war related displacement and chaos.

There were 5.4 million Jews in the USSR in 1941 combined with some 3.6 million Jews in the rest of Europe, mostly concentrated in Eastern Europe(Poland, Romania, Hungary).

In 1959 there were 2.279 million Jews in the USSR's now EXPANDED borders. From 1948 to 1953 there were was a migration of 338k Jews to Israel from Europe, 313k from Eastern Europe alone. And its estimated that immediately after ww2 slightly over 400k Jews went to the US.

Even if we add that up at best we get a Jewish emigration of 750k from Europe. The Jewish population drop in the USSR alone is 3.2 million. And mind you this is despite nearly 2 decades of births. So at the very minimum, 2.5 million Jews died, at least 2.4 million died in the USSR alone.

There were further 150k Jewish military casualties in the Eastern front as Jews fought in the Red army. There were nearly 9 million Jews in Europe in 1939.

By 1959 even accounting for immigration the total Jewish population of Europe was just above 3 million as a further 106k European Jews left for Israel during 1952-60.

So at the very least even accounting for underreported immigration and frauds at least 4-5 million Jews died in WW2. The USSR alone counted 2.4 million losses. There was a migration of 419k Jews from eastern Europe from 1948-1960, in 1939 just Poland and the USSR alone had 6.3 million Jews. In 1959 there was only 2.3-2.4 million left.

Where did these 4 million Jews go? In 1945 there were .5 million Jews in Israel, in 1967 all the way forward there was still only 2.3 million Jews in Israel. So they couldn't possibly have gone there.

That leaves only one option, the US...for the 700k narrative to hold we'd have to assume 4 million Jews fled to the US in the span of 14 years from 1945 to 1959. That's simply not believable...there was no such mass migration from the USSR, the records simply aren't there.

Ultimately I concede that Jews were not gassed or turned into lampshades or were human experiment victims, they mostly died in war related causes, starvation, collateral damage, disease, exposure and banditry.

Its undeniable that the Nazis were barbaric in the eastern front, against Slavs they viewed subhuman, just look at their treatment of Russians and Poles. Nearly 10 million Russian women were raped, 15 million soviet citizens died and 3 million poles died in ww2 under Nazi occupation.

They had no intention to keep the population of these regions alive for any period of time, they always intended to cleanse eastern Europe of Slavs and replace them with Germans. Hitler long expressed his desire to colonize the east and he said as much in Mein Kampf.

Hitler was not a white nationalist, he would despise most white nationalists. He despised Christianity, he saw whites like Irish and Slavs as inferior. He was a Nordicist and German supremacist

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

International Red Cross data that used to be easy to fidn online claimed that just under 300,000 people died in German camps. That's a lot of people. But, it's not six million. Apparently the six million figure was used to convince the US and UN to award Palestine to the Jews, who claimed to have lost 2 out of 3 Jews in Europe during the war. The IRC also stated that there were 2.3 million prisoners in the camps total. It's impossible to kill six million people when fewer than that number were there to start with.

Nasty shit happened. We're lied to about the scale of it, however.