Taiwan is a US military asset, not a US ally. That’s a very significant difference that everyone, especially the Taiwanese, would do well to keep in mind.

submitted by Chipit from daniellarison.substack.com

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]Site_rly_sux 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

I got it from surveys like this one. Apparently I was 4% off my guess that 'most' Americans would defend Taiwan, but then, this survey was last year, before democracies were united against totalitarianism due to Feb 2022, so it's likely higher now.

https://www.thechicagocouncil.org/research/public-opinion-survey/first-time-half-americans-favor-defending-taiwan-if-china-invades

The American public supports a range of US policies in support of Taiwan. Majorities favor US recognition of Taiwan as an independent country (69%), supporting its inclusion in international organizations (65%), and signing a US-Taiwan free trade agreement (57%).

A slimmer majority (53%) support the United States' signing a formal alliance with Taiwan, and a plurality (46%) favor explicitly committing to defend Taiwan if China invades.

You asked -

Would you pick up a rifle and get riddled with machine gun fire to defend a foreign country against a different foreign country? To defend the borders of others while we cannot defend our own? Why?

Yes, I would. As to why: Because America stands up for it's values and fights for the underdog. America fights for what's right because if it didn't, the world's superpowers would lock America out of Imperial Preference trade zones and nobody would buy the delicious Del Monte pineapples or drive Fords or watch Marvel movies.

Also you forgot to explain what you meant by the editorialised "asset" comment that you insisted people respond to. I did, and then you changed the topic.

I'd ask you to expand on that further so that people can actually provide comment like you've insisted they do. For example - if Taiwan's sole purpose is as an American asset, do you think Taiwan has an obligation to its citizenry? Does Taiwan provide pensions, jobless benefit, social security? Does the armed security that Taiwan provides to it's citizenry have any utility outside of the context of an American asset?

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Yes, I would. As to why: Because America stands up for it's values and fights for the underdog. America fights for what's right because if it didn't, the world's superpowers would lock America out of Imperial Preference trade zones and nobody would buy the delicious Del Monte pineapples or drive Fords or watch Marvel movies.

I think there is a very strong case to be made that we have done just the opposite of that in South America for decades (The contra affair is just one example of many). We have used coups, embargo's, and other destabilization tactics in this region for a long time, mainly in the interest of preventing these regions from attempting any form of socialism - which would mean food and labor would not be as cheap or ripe for us to exploit economically, and mean an end to your cheap Del Monte pineapples.

The bigger problem is that these tactics that destabilized these regions, has also caused a flood of illegal immigration, which otherwise would have never occurred.

[–]Site_rly_sux 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek with regards to del Monte, a company who stole an island from the Hawaiian people in a coup, it's not a squeaky clean history.

Regarding socialism in Latin America - I think today's Nicaragua shows what forces America was up against in Latin America. America put down a lot of socialist revolutions in that part of the world but it didn't put down the Sandinista revolution. In return, today, Nicaragua is 100% aligned with the Kremlin special operation narrative, is a base for russian troops, votes with the russia in the UN.

America wasn't fighting socialist politics, it was fighting insidious russian influence. The russia shares responsibility for destabilising the region, not solely america. It's an off topic conversation anyway. This thread is about the hilarity of chipit complaining about people only reading the headline and not the article (when he composed the headline with very little reference to the articles contents and couldn't back up his position LMAO)

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

his thread is about the hilarity of chipit complaining about people only reading the headline and not the article (when he composed the headline with very little reference to the articles contents and couldn't back up his position LMAO)

Indeed, carry on good sir, I don't mean to distract from important work

[–]Insider 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

site_rly_sux is a neoliberal government agent

[–]Airbus320 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

His previous alt was site_sux

[–]Canbot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Surveys said Hillary Clinton had a 99% chance of winning, and overwhelming agreed it would be the biggest landslide victory in US history. Take them for what they are.

When you use vague terms like "defend" it means very different things to different people. If the question were "should the US declare war on China to defend Taiwan?" The answers would be very different.

Few people have a problem with the US giving soft aid and resources. Fewer think thier kids should die to defend it.

[–]Chipit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Because America stands up for it's values and fights for the underdog.

??? The US is an empire that stands for the powerful. Where does this crap come from?

America fights for what's right because if it didn't, the world's superpowers would lock America out of Imperial Preference trade zones and nobody would buy the delicious Del Monte pineapples or drive Fords or watch Marvel movies.

There aren't any other superpowers. But you knew that. Nobody has world power like the US. There have been only three superpowers in the world, UK, USSR and USA. All are absolutely brutal. Just ask the Iranians or Chileans who had their democratic governments overthrown and replaced with dictatorships.

The world sells to us, not the other way around. We run massive trade deficits, these are bribes to keep other countries in the imperial system. The losers are the American people.

if Taiwan's sole purpose is as an American asset

Fallacy. Nobody argued this, but you knew that.

[–]Site_rly_sux 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

You forgot to explain, why you're so insistent people read the article, when the headline you wrote has very little bearing on its contents. You did read it, no?

Where does this crap come from?

Woodrow Wilson

There aren't any other superpowers.

Tell that to ukraine, taiwan, moldova, georgia, estonia, Kazakhstan...all of those nations are under threat from a local regional superpower.

Any power can establish a sphere of influence in their region and destabilise the global system. That would be bad for America. This is provided in answer to you wondering why Americans would defend foreign land from invaders.

The world sells to us, not the other way around. We run massive trade deficits, these are bribes to keep other countries in the imperial system. The losers are the American people.

Ah yes, the greatest rise in living standards, Fukuyama's end of history, the end of world war....all terrible for the American people. Oh wait, no, it's been fantastic.

Fallacy. Nobody argued this, but you knew that.

Well let's be clear, YOU are the origin for the word "asset" which doesn't appear once in the linked article. I have invited you to explain what you mean and you declined. I think, honestly, you're just stupid, and so dumb that you didn't expect to be called out to explain what the hell you mean. So go on, explain what the hell you mean. "Nobody argued this" you insist. The meaning you intended for the word "asset" is apparently secret, you refuse to expand, but you can at least reveal that I made a fallcy. Great work chipit

[–]Chipit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

a local regional superpower.

LOL you don't even understand the words you're using.

Any power can establish a sphere of influence in their region

These are called regional powers. Not superpowers.

Oh wait, no, it's been fantastic.

No it hasn't. Deindustrialization, massive offshoring, exporting of jobs, all a disaster for the American people. But really good for hostile foreigners who hate us, and the DC elites who hate us too!

[–]Site_rly_sux 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Dude are you only nitpicking because you can't cope with debating the argument?

  1. Local regional powers in the absence of globalisation will develop spheres of influence, similar to imperial preference

  2. This is bad for America who wants minimal tariffs and free trade on pineapples and fords

  3. America intervenes to support open societies because America stands up for it's values, and because America gets rich when people consume American cultural products (music, movies), financialize their economies (flash boys) and drive GM.

Your response is to nitpick how many superpowers there are in the world, which is totally irrelevant to why America supports Taiwan.

No it hasn't. Deindustrialization, massive offshoring, exporting of jobs, all a disaster for the American people. But really good for hostile foreigners who hate us, and the DC elites who hate us too!

Would you prefer to live in 1940s or today? Would you rather dig coal and beat panels, or design graphics and program websites? The post war settlement has led to the highest gain in living standards for Americans than any other period or place in history. You're simply wrong about this, go and live in the 1940s if you don't like the modern world, which means putting down the phone and cancelling your internet contract.

[–]Chipit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

because America gets rich when people consume American cultural products (music, movies), financialize their economies (flash boys) and drive GM.

No it doesn't. Globalization overwhelmingly supports those who are already wealthy. American exports are a joke, unless they are weapons. Otherwise we pay the world for the privilege of keeping the oceans free for them to dump their garbage on our country. Chineseium didn't come out of a hole in the ground.

Would you rather dig coal and beat panels, or design graphics and program websites?

And there it is folks: sneering contempt for the working class, with praise for the professional-managerial class. You just can't buy open bigotry like this.

[–]Site_rly_sux 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

When you can't refute the point about living standards, it's best to pretend offence where none exists. Is that right?

Nobody has contempt for anyone here, but it's important for you to quickly try and steer the conversation away from the topic at hand. That's what I'm seeing here.

If you think human living standards have DROPPED since pax america, you can return to living a 1940s lifestyle if you want. It would mean putting the phone down though. Quick! Pretend to take offence so you don't have to respond!

[–]Chipit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

If you think human living standards have DROPPED since pax america

Sure they have. Just not for anyone you know.

A man used to be able to work at a working class job and buy a house and expect a new car every three years. That's gone. It didn't just happen naturally, it was the result of deliberate hatred on the part of people who were already wealthy.

They did very well by hurting our working class. And if you're in with them, I'm sure things are going very well for you. Fuck working class, learn to code!

(isn't it funny how when the little people turn this around and begin telling members of the professional-managerial class the exact same thing, suddenly it's hate speech and they get banned for it? Weird, eh?)

[–]Site_rly_sux 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

In the 1940s many americans wouldnt have had indoor plumbing, a phone line, a TV, heating, air-conditioning, a car, sewage, propane hookups, obviously the internet. You can live like they did on one salary, I bet with money to spare. And clearly it's what you WANT to do, because you think your living standard has dropped since then. So go for it.

isn't it funny how when the little people turn this around

Oh boo hoo, you're upset about a situation you just imagined in your head. Hope you cheer up

[–]Chipit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Punching down on the little guy is always ugly.