all 44 comments

[–]Anman 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (34 children)

Spoken like someone that knows nothing of the history of Taiwan and West Taiwan. Like Japan, they do not care about the rest of the world and they have been preparing for this for a long time.

[–]Chipit[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (31 children)

Taiwan is not a US ally. Please engage with the substance of the argument; that's how we do things on Saidit.

That "West Taiwan" is a symptom of Reddit brainworms. Take the ivermectin and kill that infestation. Read. Understand.

[–]Anman 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (30 children)

You are not a US ally.

[–]Chipit[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (29 children)

Tut, tut...let's address the point. Taiwan is not a US ally, it is a military asset. What are the points in the article where you agree or disagree? Why?

[–]Anman 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Its irrelevant to the part:

That’s a very significant difference that everyone, especially the Taiwanese, would do well to keep in mind.

They don't care. No people in any nation cares about the US status in this regards

[–]Chipit[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

This is a poor way to have an argument. You haven't even read the article, you've just been triggered by the headline.

"West Taiwan" LOL Reddit on the brain. It's OK to read articles on Saidit. You can decide what you don't agree with and tell us.

[–]Canbot 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

He is probably just a paid propagandist that had this post flagged because of key words. His arguments are illogical and even contradictory. His English is probably weak and he is using copy and paste talking points.

In particular "they have been preparing for this for a long time" is completely irrelevant and out of place, but also an extremely common phrase that shills use.

[–]Chipit[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

He is probably just a paid propagandist that had this post flagged because of key words.

This is the correct answer.

[–]Site_rly_sux 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You haven't even read the article, you've just been triggered by the headline.

Funny you say that when the headline which you wrote has very little to do with the article

It's OK to read articles on Saidit. You can decide what you don't agree with and tell us.

No chipit, remember how you don't actually want people to do that here on saidit, because when people do that they get told something like this

https://saidit.net/s/WorldNews/comments/9k3m/strategists_admit_west_is_goading_china_into_war/ywi5

Begone, troll. Back to Reddit where you belong. You do not fit in at Saidit.

[–]Anman 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Imagine taking legal advice from some one who always writes in capitals and with a crayon on paper.

[–]Site_rly_sux 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

The word "asset" doesn't appear in the article once, it seems to be your own editorial.

The article is about how America doesn't have legal obligation to defend Taiwan. There's not much to argue about there, law is law, but I think very few Americans would doubt the moral obligation to defend against Chinese invasion.

You're asking people to comment on the editorialised title you added, that Taiwan is an asset not an ally. I'd ask you to expand on that further so that people can actually provide comment like you've insisted they do. For example - if Taiwan's sole purpose is as an American asset, do you think Taiwan has an obligation to its citizenry? Does Taiwan provide pensions, jobless benefit, social security? Does the armed security that Taiwan provides to it's citizenry have any utility outside of the context of an American asset?

[–]Chipit[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (21 children)

I think very few Americans would doubt the moral obligation to defend against Chinese invasion.

Really? Where'd you get this from?

Would you pick up a rifle and get riddled with machine gun fire to defend a foreign country against a different foreign country? To defend the borders of others while we cannot defend our own? Why? And if you don't know why, why should any other American die?

[–]Site_rly_sux 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

I got it from surveys like this one. Apparently I was 4% off my guess that 'most' Americans would defend Taiwan, but then, this survey was last year, before democracies were united against totalitarianism due to Feb 2022, so it's likely higher now.

https://www.thechicagocouncil.org/research/public-opinion-survey/first-time-half-americans-favor-defending-taiwan-if-china-invades

The American public supports a range of US policies in support of Taiwan. Majorities favor US recognition of Taiwan as an independent country (69%), supporting its inclusion in international organizations (65%), and signing a US-Taiwan free trade agreement (57%).

A slimmer majority (53%) support the United States' signing a formal alliance with Taiwan, and a plurality (46%) favor explicitly committing to defend Taiwan if China invades.

You asked -

Would you pick up a rifle and get riddled with machine gun fire to defend a foreign country against a different foreign country? To defend the borders of others while we cannot defend our own? Why?

Yes, I would. As to why: Because America stands up for it's values and fights for the underdog. America fights for what's right because if it didn't, the world's superpowers would lock America out of Imperial Preference trade zones and nobody would buy the delicious Del Monte pineapples or drive Fords or watch Marvel movies.

Also you forgot to explain what you meant by the editorialised "asset" comment that you insisted people respond to. I did, and then you changed the topic.

I'd ask you to expand on that further so that people can actually provide comment like you've insisted they do. For example - if Taiwan's sole purpose is as an American asset, do you think Taiwan has an obligation to its citizenry? Does Taiwan provide pensions, jobless benefit, social security? Does the armed security that Taiwan provides to it's citizenry have any utility outside of the context of an American asset?

[–]HongKongPhooey 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Yes, I would. As to why: Because America stands up for it's values and fights for the underdog. America fights for what's right because if it didn't, the world's superpowers would lock America out of Imperial Preference trade zones and nobody would buy the delicious Del Monte pineapples or drive Fords or watch Marvel movies.

I think there is a very strong case to be made that we have done just the opposite of that in South America for decades (The contra affair is just one example of many). We have used coups, embargo's, and other destabilization tactics in this region for a long time, mainly in the interest of preventing these regions from attempting any form of socialism - which would mean food and labor would not be as cheap or ripe for us to exploit economically, and mean an end to your cheap Del Monte pineapples.

The bigger problem is that these tactics that destabilized these regions, has also caused a flood of illegal immigration, which otherwise would have never occurred.

[–]Site_rly_sux 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek with regards to del Monte, a company who stole an island from the Hawaiian people in a coup, it's not a squeaky clean history.

Regarding socialism in Latin America - I think today's Nicaragua shows what forces America was up against in Latin America. America put down a lot of socialist revolutions in that part of the world but it didn't put down the Sandinista revolution. In return, today, Nicaragua is 100% aligned with the Kremlin special operation narrative, is a base for russian troops, votes with the russia in the UN.

America wasn't fighting socialist politics, it was fighting insidious russian influence. The russia shares responsibility for destabilising the region, not solely america. It's an off topic conversation anyway. This thread is about the hilarity of chipit complaining about people only reading the headline and not the article (when he composed the headline with very little reference to the articles contents and couldn't back up his position LMAO)

[–]HongKongPhooey 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

his thread is about the hilarity of chipit complaining about people only reading the headline and not the article (when he composed the headline with very little reference to the articles contents and couldn't back up his position LMAO)

Indeed, carry on good sir, I don't mean to distract from important work

[–]Canbot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Surveys said Hillary Clinton had a 99% chance of winning, and overwhelming agreed it would be the biggest landslide victory in US history. Take them for what they are.

When you use vague terms like "defend" it means very different things to different people. If the question were "should the US declare war on China to defend Taiwan?" The answers would be very different.

Few people have a problem with the US giving soft aid and resources. Fewer think thier kids should die to defend it.

[–]Chipit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Because America stands up for it's values and fights for the underdog.

??? The US is an empire that stands for the powerful. Where does this crap come from?

America fights for what's right because if it didn't, the world's superpowers would lock America out of Imperial Preference trade zones and nobody would buy the delicious Del Monte pineapples or drive Fords or watch Marvel movies.

There aren't any other superpowers. But you knew that. Nobody has world power like the US. There have been only three superpowers in the world, UK, USSR and USA. All are absolutely brutal. Just ask the Iranians or Chileans who had their democratic governments overthrown and replaced with dictatorships.

The world sells to us, not the other way around. We run massive trade deficits, these are bribes to keep other countries in the imperial system. The losers are the American people.

if Taiwan's sole purpose is as an American asset

Fallacy. Nobody argued this, but you knew that.

[–]Site_rly_sux 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

You forgot to explain, why you're so insistent people read the article, when the headline you wrote has very little bearing on its contents. You did read it, no?

Where does this crap come from?

Woodrow Wilson

There aren't any other superpowers.

Tell that to ukraine, taiwan, moldova, georgia, estonia, Kazakhstan...all of those nations are under threat from a local regional superpower.

Any power can establish a sphere of influence in their region and destabilise the global system. That would be bad for America. This is provided in answer to you wondering why Americans would defend foreign land from invaders.

The world sells to us, not the other way around. We run massive trade deficits, these are bribes to keep other countries in the imperial system. The losers are the American people.

Ah yes, the greatest rise in living standards, Fukuyama's end of history, the end of world war....all terrible for the American people. Oh wait, no, it's been fantastic.

Fallacy. Nobody argued this, but you knew that.

Well let's be clear, YOU are the origin for the word "asset" which doesn't appear once in the linked article. I have invited you to explain what you mean and you declined. I think, honestly, you're just stupid, and so dumb that you didn't expect to be called out to explain what the hell you mean. So go on, explain what the hell you mean. "Nobody argued this" you insist. The meaning you intended for the word "asset" is apparently secret, you refuse to expand, but you can at least reveal that I made a fallcy. Great work chipit

[–]Chipit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

a local regional superpower.

LOL you don't even understand the words you're using.

Any power can establish a sphere of influence in their region

These are called regional powers. Not superpowers.

Oh wait, no, it's been fantastic.

No it hasn't. Deindustrialization, massive offshoring, exporting of jobs, all a disaster for the American people. But really good for hostile foreigners who hate us, and the DC elites who hate us too!

[–]Canbot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If they do not care about the rest of the world then logically they are not a US ally.

You sound like a contrarian, arguing for the sake of arguing without any thought or care for logic.

[–]Anman 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The average person doesn't give a shit about US political movements or declared statuses. The average US person doesnt care. So how much more outside of the US do you think people care? Go into Taiwan and ask every one you walk past on the street what they think of the US as an ally and they wont care.

[–]Canbot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The US has many satellite states, military bases, and covert territories everywhere. The distinction between an ally that has allowed secret US military bases, and a full on satellite state is moot. Obviously the US has China facing military assets there that the US is not going to allow to fall into Chinese hands.

[–]iamonlyoneman 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Taiwan is a place where USA shot itself in the foot by allowing/encouraging trade to develop in a territory that was certainly going to revert to the communists soon. It's not an asset or an ally, it's a strategic and tactical blunder decades in the making.

[–]Canbot 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

The US has no say in allowing or disallowing anything in Taiwan.

Unless you believe the US is in fact in control of it.

So which is it?

[–]iamonlyoneman 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

USA can't regulate international commerce with companies in USA

https://www.pikpng.com/pngl/m/389-3892863_dick-png.png

[–]Site_rly_sux 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Your theory is predicated on Taiwan having turned over to the Communists some time "soon" after America started supporting the Kuomintang (the 1930s). Assuming that Taiwan hasn't actually fallen to any communists since 1930, where does that leave your theory? How would the world in your theory be different to the real world of today, if instead of a 90 years blunder, we actually saw the growth of a high-tech rich democratic nation that served the interests of its people, one whose technology lifted the standards of life for all humans in the world. Wouldn't the situation where, actually Taiwan hasn't fallen to any communists since 1930s, and it is a net positive force in the world, be different to the massive "blunder" that you've imagined happening

[–]iamonlyoneman 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Soon as in from the 1980s when we started really trading with taiwanese companies in earnest.

Everything developed in Taiwan because it was cheaper, if it had been developed in USA, would have lifted the world out of poverty all the same.

China is going to swallow Taiwan just as sure as Russia is going to swallow "Ukraine" from the Donbass to Transnistria. The only question is how many USAmerican tax dollars get laundered through weapons manufacturers in the process.

[–]Site_rly_sux 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You're saying that soon after 1980 Taiwan will fall to the mainland? Or soon after 2022 it will happen, which would make the 42 years in which you decided America traded in earnest (so prior to that the trade was dishonest?) the major blunder you wrote about earlier?

China is going to swallow Taiwan just as sure as Russia is going to swallow "Ukraine" from the Donbass to Transnistria

Yeah...any day now, buddy, right? Keep huffing that copium. Russia is making massive advances...they just happen to be in the wrong direction towards Moscow... https://saidit.net/s/WorldNews/comments/9grh/a_quarter_year_in_the_making_worlds_second_best/

[–]iamonlyoneman 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Soon in the scale of empires. If you can't see the writing on the wall then maybe go back to CNN and they'll tell you what to think about the Next Thing

[–]Site_rly_sux 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I dont think I've ever in my life watched CNN. Here are some of the things which happened even sooner, in the scale of empire.

  1. Invention of the floating gate transistor

  2. Invention of the n95 mask

  3. Invention of the usb drive

  4. Products of TSMC

  5. Products of Asus computers

  6. Products of HonHai Precision

All of which happened even sooner than your imaginary invasion! So it's a good job America made this 1930-2022 "blunder", because now the world gets semiconductors!

if you can't see the writing on the wall

Says the guy who thinks the russia is winning in Ukraine LMAO