What if Russia's Army Fails in Ukraine?

submitted by Site_sux from rand.org

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[–]Site_sux[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

Sorry I have no idea what you're talking about.

It says there on his wiki page that Charles Schwab paid for trump's legal defence during the special council investigation on Russia so it's quite possible he's wrapped up in this somehow, but the notion that a US equities trader is the power behind Putin - the richest and probably most powerful individual in the world - it's ludicrous.

Is it not normal for governments to be run by people who betray thier country for thier own financial gain?

Yes, in corrupt countries, but I'd argue that the embezzlers don't consider what they're doing a betrayal. If you want to know how normal this is, you can look at a ranking of data collected on this topic.

https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021

I think you're probably onto the fifties in that list before you find somewhere "normal for governments to be run by people who betray thier country for thier own financial gain" but even there the normality may vary

[–]Canbot 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (15 children)

Putin - the richest and probably most powerful individual in the world

Meet Aladdin. Far more powerful than Putin. Even the US president is more powerful than putin. Putin has his own oligarchs that he has to appease. He also has a central bank in control of his countries currency. Who controls the central banks?

Trump is a billionair, why do you think schwab is paying for his legal defense?

[–]Site_sux[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

Putin has his own oligarchs that he has to appease.

Patently untrue. The oligarchs answer to Putin or are killed. Like almost four dozen over the past few years

https://fortune.com/2022/04/26/russian-oligarchs-deaths-strange-circumstances-this-year/

You can read Bill Browder's testimony in many places, this one gives a good background of why you're wrong

https://theweek.com/politics/1012021/the-role-of-oligarchs-in-russia

Who controls the central banks?

Not a difficult question, she's a very famous woman, Nabiulina controls the Russian central bank and she's been trying to quit since the war started. But Putin won't let her because he's in charge and knows she's a capable technocrat.

Trump is a billionair, why do you think schuab is paying for his legal defense?

How the fuck should I know.

[–]Canbot 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

How the fuck should I know. Do you know? Did you think I would somehow know?

It's a rhetorical question. The point is that Wikipedia is not a good source of information. One should be skeptical of stories that don't make sense from sources that have a history of spreading propaganda.

[–]Site_sux[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Well wait, that's why you have a problem with it? Ok I clicked the source on the wiki page, it's written right there on conservative news wsj

https://www.wsj.com/articles/gop-funds-donald-trumps-defense-in-russia-probe-with-help-from-a-handful-of-wealthy-people-1506109617

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-legal-fund-paid-billionaire-robert-mercer-day-comey-fired-676383

Of course it makes sense. The guy's rich and trump gave a tax cut to the rich. The guy's conservative and trump was a regressive. Trump's a shakedown artist and this guy was willing to pick up the phone. There are a million reasons that make sense - the only thing that doesn't make sense is why you think him talking about connecting with young global leaders is proof of a conspiracy.

[–]Canbot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

trump gave a tax cut to the rich.

Tax cuts to the rich is a propaganda meme, it's not real. The left will simultaneously argue that the rich don't pay taxes and that when there are tax cuts only the rich get a brake. It's nonsense.

I don't think the WSJ is conservative, or particularly honest. But this is all already in the weeds. I don't think any source should be believed without question. It doesn't matter who said it. What matters is what evidence they have. What logical arguments they present.

Furthermore it doesn't matter if schwab paid, but why (if at all) he did. Because that is what the substance of the claim is. It is the implicantions they are making with the claim. It is the implications YOU are making with that claim. I don't think schwab saved Trump in any way. I don't think this indicates they are buddies. I don't think this is strong evidence for anything.

[–]Site_sux[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Tax cuts to the rich is a propaganda meme, it's not real.

I understand you get to live in an imaginary world, but you have to come down from the clouds sometimes. It sucks to have to actually go and verify the information making up your worldview but sometimes it just has to be done

The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2021, the "trump tax bill" capped local and state taxes and reduced corporation taxes to at most 21%. I want to ask you whether you have reached a state or local tax cap and whether you think that benefitted you. I want to know how much of your income comes from stock dividends and how much that corp tax cut helped. I suspect not a lot. Some meme.

I don't think this is strong evidence for anything.

Well you've got me chasing down rabbit holes to back up your argument that Charles Schwab, the guy who the equities company is named after, is pulling the strings of the Ukraine war and the proof is a single comment about talking to world leaders. You just live in a world of make believe.

[–]Canbot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

the guy who the equities company is named after,

Do you think he is a mascot? The way you say that implies you don't understand what it means to have one of the most wealty and powerful companies be named after you. He is far more than you seem to understand.

My argument was never that he is pulling the strings on the war. My argument is that it is most likely that invisible hands are playing a role, and that they have the power to push things in thier own interests.

[–]Site_sux[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

He runs an equities company. Or at least I'm assuming he does because you're unable to provide any links or proof.

Did you read the part where you were wrong about the tax cuts? Are we just skipping past that

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Putin is widely rumored to be the richest man on earth, but little of his wealth shows up on paper.

So rumors prove that I'm wrong?

[–]Site_sux[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Huh? What are you quoting from here - I didn't type that. Anyway I recall bill Browder saying exactly that. And Navalny saying exactly that. So they are two people who would say you're wrong. I don't even know what you're trying to argue. You think Putin is subservient to the freemasons? Can you offer a shred of evidence of that?

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I'm quoting from the article you linked.

You think Putin is subservient to the freemasons

No. I am simply open to the possibility that his invasion was coordinated with other globalists. That he is potentially manipulated by ultra wealthy and powerful groups, or works with them.

But even if he is genuinely in opposition to western powers that does not mean they want to destroy him entirely. Crimea, and Georgia before it, were given up without a fight. And there is no denying that Putin and Russia are common boogie men in Western propaganda. If they kill the boogie man who will they use to slander people like Trump?

[–]Site_sux[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

If they kill the boogie man who will they use to slander people like Trump?

There's no "they" in reality, so your imaginary enemies can do just about anything.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Here are three world leaders who just happen to be closely associated as children. There is a lot of evidence like this that there is a "they" who can funnel thier own, or those they groomed and corrupted, into positions of authority and power. Not one they but a small collection of powerful groups.

So when Charles schwab brags about infiltrating many governments with these "agents" I tend to believe him. When he says that half of Canada's government are WMF shills and that claim explains why the Canadian government is so totalitarian I tend to think those pieces fit together well and corroborate each other. Along with all the other things the Canadian government does that I find to be illogical unless the goal is something far from what is stated.

[–]Site_sux[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Lol the only proof you linked is a much debunked photo. Literally your standard of evidence is "well some guy on social media thought they look similar".

It's a fake and makes me wonder about your ability to verify information.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-photo-theresa-may-dalia-gry/fact-check-photo-does-not-show-theresa-may-dalia-grybauskaiteand-angela-merkel-as-teens-idUSKCN25623Z

Show me a single drop of proof that anyone other than Putin is responsible for this war.

I don't believe your illuminati theories so either provide proof or sling them

[–]Canbot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Julian assange has been tortured to the point of mental breakdown for his role in exposing proof. There can never openly exist convincing (to the masses) proof against anyone with significant power. All evidence will always be "debunked". Only with an open mind can you look at all the evidence and do a meta analysis to more accurately determin what is true.

To you a grand conspiracy can't exist. To me a grand conspiracy is inevitable. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If you want to know how normal this is, you can look at a ranking of data collected on this topic.

That is data on the perception of corruption which had everything to do with what the media says and nothing to do with how much corruption there actually is. There is no real data there about actual corruption. One only needs to look at what has been done to Assange to see what happens to those who reveal real corruption.