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[–]magnora7 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

The spike proteins are expressed within the cell and generally presented within the cell membrane.

I got the impression only a minority of the spike proteins make it to the membrane, while most just hang out in the cell and aren't exposed until the cell dies. I learned this from a NYT article, which is paywalled so here is an exact copy of it on another site: https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/explained-a-visual-guide-to-how-the-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-works-1.4436433

"Some of the spike proteins form spikes that migrate to the surface of the cell and stick out their tips. The vaccinated cells also break up some of the proteins into fragments, which they present on their surface. These protruding spikes and spike protein fragments can then be recognised by the immune system"

"When a vaccinated cell dies, the debris will contain many spike proteins and protein fragments, which can then be taken up by a type of immune cell called an antigen-presenting cell."

So they say only "some" of the spike proteins make it to the surface. And "many" spike proteins (and protein fragments that are 1/3 of a spike!) are released by the cell when it dies.

As to the immune system recognising what the antigen is attached to, this is very very rarely the case when it comes to the host cells. If it were so, any infection at all would trigger a catastrophic autoimmune response.

You could be right, that makes sense. I wish I understood more about this specific part of the process. I don't even really understand why the immune system automatically sees the spikes as a threat in the first place, when they're not attached to a virus. Is it just any unusual shaped protein will result in an immune response? Or is it when the cell that is full of spike proteins dies, the death chemicals from the cell are paired with the spike proteins released, resulting in an immune system "memory" being created? I wish I knew more on this specific aspect.

The design of the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program is a supremely bad idea, your intuition is not incorrect. This has happened because America's federal regulatory bodies have been captured fully by the very corporations they are supposed to oversee and limit. This strategy is called "regulatory capture" and unfortunately has become a common method of operation for the largest American corporations. See the yellow venn diagram at the bottom of this chart for some concrete examples of the overlap between industry and regulation that has caused this "regulatory capture" situation in America: https://i.imgur.com/PVpFY.jpeg

Knowing this and seeing how rushed the vaccine has been, gives me significant pause.

It does make me wonder how it's approved in other countries though. It can't be that every country relies on the USA's FDA to verify vaccine safety right? I surely hope not. I would assume each country has its own federal vaccine liability and safety organization? I don't know what country you are from, but what is the approval and testing process in your country for this vaccine? Are they running their own independent safety tests and reviews?

Anyway, I agree this has been a great conversation, it's nice to talk about these things in a scientific way, rather than emotional way like I have seen so much of lately.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Interesting, thanks for the link.

    [–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    he's bullshitting you, Magnora7. He's made a ton of elementary mistakes in his use of language around cellular mechanisms. He's pretending to be a knowledgeable scientist, but he's got student level awareness at best.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      doesn't matter what anyone else understands. What matters is the language that YOU use, as it demonstrates your own mastery of the field.

      [–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Either way it's one the more well-informed conversations I've had in a while, and I appreciate him for that