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[–]wizzwizz4 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Really? Interesting…

Might I ask why?

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I was hoping you'd ask.

First, Russia has a long and fascinating history. This include Genghis Khan, Catherine The Great, Czars, etc. They rejected royalty so much they killed them. They've been punished for rejecting the establishment since. That cold war was not so cold. Finally they subverted their economy and instead of Western powers going in to save it and own it the allowed it to fail even worse since the early nineties. The powers that be don't care about the people, thus America is crumbling now. They just care about their power and control. They're already filthy rich and make up the economic systems anyway, so even if you doubled their wealth by making the entire society flourish (the rising tide lifts all boats) it wouldn't really affect their lives other than to make everyone else more secure - and thus some might lift the veil, see the deception, and organize change.

An excellent analysis of some of this is covered in Naomi Klein's "The Shock Doctrine".

We now have Putin because that's what was allowed to flourish. More of the same kind of tyranny tolerated by the capitalists. The west pretends he's evil meanwhile they make deals with him. Clintons and the Uranium One scandal, Trump and his OTHER Russia dealings they won't cover or investigate, etc.

Anyway, Ukraine and other countries used to be part of the USSR. Nostalgic Russians still believe they have a right to reclaim what was once theirs. And it's on their border. And most importantly it's critical to having access to the warm water oceans via the Mediterranean. The rest of Russia's ports are terrible in the winter and they're almost land locked.

Imagine if Canada took over Detroit (or both sides of Niagra) or took action in Montreal, and then we blocked all traffic on the Great Lakes seaway. That means all upstream, including Chicago, would be screwed and would depend ONLY upon rail and roads. Not the best example.

Russia cannot allow access to the oceans to be compromised.

That's my number one reason. But there are more.

Due to the fate of the Universe, the Middle East is critical for many reasons, beyond the oil, the clash of cultures, etc etc etc. It's also the pinch between 4 great land masses. Northern Asia with Russia is divided from India by a great mountain range with the tallest mountain on the planet, Europe, and Africa. This is not just a cultural crossroads but a physical pinched crossroads and they all want their resources to be freely exchangeable, whether it's railways, pipelines, or superhighways. This is about power and control too.

The West (USA, UK, Israel, Saudis) wants to control this even though it's obviously meddling in Russia's front yard.

As far as Russia's claims to other formerly Soviet countries, I have mixed feelings. Personally I would prefer more decentralization and all countries be as small as possible. But this makes them weaker. So for these post-Soviet countries I'd like them to be small but I wouldn't like them to be weaker and potentially proxy battlefields of the US and Russia. I'd like them to be independent but they might do better under Russia's wing. The USA doesn't care about them. At all. And the ONLY reason Germany did so well during the cold war was to shove it in the face of Russia and East Germany. It was artificially propped up glorious "western capitalism".

Am I a fan of Russia? Fuck no.

Am I a fan of US Empire? Fuck no.

I don't pick sides.

Also, for another comparison, Puerto Rico is a territory of the USA. Trump may blame them for their economy, but it's the same fucking economy as the USA. The same. They ARE part of the USA - like many US territories, and they don't have rights or votes or anything. It's actually very evil.

But say for example Puerto Rico somehow managed to escape from the clutches of the USA. Not even going "communist" or asking Russia for protection. The US would insist on reclaiming it.

Now imagine if Russia started supporting Puerto Rico (or Cuba). Things get more intense. It's also complicated because you have the US interests, the Russian interests, and then you have the interests of the local people and the interests of the new local leaders. Maybe they didn't like the capitalists. Maybe they don't like communists either. Maybe they're just more of the same but different and a perfect excuse for war and conflict and oppression.

But the difference between Puerto Rico/Cuba and the Ukraine/Crimea is that the Russian continent depends on that ocean access and the USA has abundant coastlines for overseas resources.

There's more, but I've ranted enough.

[–]wizzwizz4 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

TL;DR: Russia isn't the hero Crimea deserves, but it might be the one it needs right no. And also Russia would really benefit from owning Ukraine.

Am I right in saying that that's a summary of what you were saying? Or am I completely missing your point?


Personally, I disagree with most invasions, and support most independences, as a rule. (Except the Scottish referendum and Brexit, but that's because there isn't really much oppression going on there.) Although annexation of Crimea might have benefited Russia, I'm not sure to what extent it benefited the citizens.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If you didn't read it you are ignorant of my views on it and further discussion is pointless, besides being insulting.

[–]wizzwizz4 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I will re-read and try to understand it better.