Did Venezuela’s President Really ‘Steal’ the 2018 Election from an Unknown Who Didn’t Run?

submitted by fred_red_beans from venezuelanalysis.com

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[–]HibikiBlack 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

The opposition and the International community didn't claim that Maduro stole the election but rather didn't consider it valid because very few people voted. Even with the huge amounts of money the PSUV used only about 40% of the electoral population voted. But I'm sure the actual numbers are way lower than that. The socialists control the voting system so no, It's not to be trusted and people need to remember that back in the protests the government killed hundreds of unarmed citizens so they won't get out of power peacefully.

The only way out is either a coup from our own side, or the US itself getting rid of Maduro. The CIA has done a lot of bad things in Latin America and all that but I think the US has handled our situation well enough. Sure, I don't have any hopes of the US helping to place an Anti-NWO leader but hey, a pro-US president would be Jesus compared to the socialists.

Besides I don't worry about these stuffs so much. Once I become Caudillo, I'll get rid of the CIA assholes in the media, the Chavez fanatics, the far left and far right loons and overall anyone who gets in my way to turn this place into a powerhouse.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Carter certified it legit. He has a rigerous certification method. Most country's don't meet the criteria.

[–]HibikiBlack 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

What makes Carter so special? The entire International community thought it wasn't legit and considering that nearly all supervisors of the electoral system work for the PSUV, most of us didn't bother voting last time.

Also, you talk like there was a peaceful way out of this. There hasn't been such a thing for quite a long time now. Not only did the government killed hundreds of citizens, but people continue to die by the day.

I remember that back in the day during the oil strike, Chavez agreed with Carter and the International community that there wouldn't be any retaliation against the workers, but when it ended Chavez got rid of a lot of them and left them without jobs....

[–]Tom_Bombadil 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

What makes him discussing is his track record of certifying elections.

For example, the US presidential election wouldn't even be eligible for his programs certification, as they fail to meet multiple criteria.

You sound like you're looking forward to an invasion by the US. It is much worse than they show on TV. You should hope they don't decide to contaminate your country with DU rounds. Birth defects for generations.

It's surprising to hear someone who wants their country invaded by the local super power. If the US sets up shop; it won't leave for decades.

[–]HibikiBlack 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

And you sound like quite the Maduro apologist. What part of the fact that most supervisors of our electoral system are socialists don't you understand? Most of us can see that and that's why we think our elections are bullshit. I don't support a full blown war with the US or another far right Caudillo who serves the US to show up. But if it helps us with an organized coup and it lets us choose our president later, then so be it.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

The use of the word "Apologist" sounds like a state department talking point.

The bogeyman term "socialist" doesn't hold the water anymore. It sounds like poor people have votes that count, and the rich (State Dept) don't like it.

But if it helps us with an organized coup and it lets us choose our president later, then so be it.

Does this sound at treasonous to you, as it does to me?

[–]HibikiBlack 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Not really. I myself would love it if we could get rid of Maduro by ourselves, but if the US gives us a hand then there is no reason to be prideful about it because after all, innocent lives are being lost daily.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

but if the US gives us a hand then there is no reason to be prideful about it because after all, innocent lives are being lost daily.

You are leaving it a crucial detail. Innocent lives are lost daily as a result of the US embargo. The US started this entire crisis, cause:.

  • Independent nationalism can not be tolerated by the local superpower, as it provides a good example to it's neighbors.
  • They're coming for your oil.
  • The US has a war economy, which could use a shot in the arm, by bombing your home.

You're literally looking forward to the US saving you, from what it's done to you and your country, by bombing and invading your country.

Surely, you recognize the logical contradiction.

[–]HibikiBlack 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

No, there is no contradiction. The economic sanctions of the US have been minimal and have mostly focused on freezing the goods the socialists have at the big bad empire. Even right now with the Guaidó thing, the US is only pushing for more sanctions against the communist bank accounts and properties over there. The crisis of the country was caused by the bapthist godfather of Chavez, Caldera causing a banking crisis, Chavez himself wasting the oil boom and his spiritual son Maduro. The country was quickly recovering before all of this with Carlos Andres until Chavez tried his coup attemps in 1992 in which a lot of civilians lost their lives.

That's it, you are either incredibly ignorant of Venezuelan history in general, are a socialist yourself or are a shill of sorts.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sure. Internal politics are trivial.

Here's some real history.

Here's the future for Venezuela.
*Iraq.
* Lybia.
* Vietnam.
*Syria (mostly).
* Nicaragua.
* Honduras.
* El Salvador.
* Chile.
* I haven't ran out of ruined nations. I could go on.

The guy who advocates for the invasion of his county and embraces a foreign coup; is making arguments about ignorance. Sure.

Also, you didn't answer my question earlier. It seems to me that you are advocating for treason. I could be mistaken. If I am mistaken, then please remind me how advocating for the invasion of Venezuela by a forign power and a coup; is not considered advocating for treason..

[–]fred_red_beans[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, there is no contradiction. The economic sanctions of the US have been minimal and have mostly focused on freezing the goods the socialists have at the big bad empire. Even right now with the Guaidó thing, the US is only pushing for more sanctions against the communist bank accounts and properties over there. The crisis of the country was caused by the bapthist godfather of Chavez, Caldera causing a banking crisis, Chavez himself wasting the oil boom and his spiritual son Maduro. The country was quickly recovering before all of this with Carlos Andres until Chavez tried his coup attemps in 1992 in which a lot of civilians lost their lives.

OK, that's your perspective on things.

That's it, you are either incredibly ignorant of Venezuelan history in general, are a socialist yourself or are a shill of sorts.

This is an attack the poster rather than refuting the information and is low on the debate pyramid.

I've seen some great posts from you on saidit. I think everyone has different perspectives and it's to all of our advantage if we can agree to disagree on the things we disagree on and just post supporting information.

I think for Tom and myself, we see the situation in Venezuela differently than you do. I think we'd be best off if we can accept that and just post information so that we can learn more about each others perspective rather than bringing the discussion down.

[–]fred_red_beans[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think labeling someone a Maduro apologist amounts to name calling.

I do not believe there is a correlation between being a socialist and being corrupt, although it does sound like corruption is rampant on all around in Venezuela. So you think the Venezuelan elections are bullshit, I don't see how a US led election after a unconstitutional coup could be more legitimate. US elections are some of the worst in the world.

[–]fred_red_beans[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

https://consortiumnews.com/2018/06/04/venezuela-reelects-maduro-defying-the-u-s/

Only 46 percent of eligible voters cast ballots on May 20, a turnout comparable to many U.S. elections and the election of French President Emmanuel Macron in 2017, but low by Venezuelan standards. Nevertheless, Maduro received a larger percentage of the eligible vote in Venezuela than did Barack Obama in 2012 or Donald Trump in 2016 in U.S. presidential elections.

Maduro swept the contest with 68 percent of the vote

Also the elections were held early:

First the U.S. and the Venezuelan opposition accused Maduro of not calling a presidential election. So Maduro called an election, and then they accused him to setting it too early. In on-again-off-again negotiations with elements of the opposition, the election was moved to a later date and then again to a still later date, settling on May 20, 2018.

It makes no sense to believe in any type of democracy and call for a foreign nation to hand pick a leader like Jaun Guaido. It would be like if Russia decided Trump was an illegitimate president and now recognized Nancy Pelosi as president. Prior to Guaido being recognized by the US, only about 20% of the Venezuela electorate had even ever heard of him.

Perhaps, once you become Caudillo you can become dictator and see how well you do dealing with Venezueala's problems and international relations.

[–]HibikiBlack 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I sure as hell know a lot more about Venezuelan laws than what you do. Here is one for example, according to our constitution, the Vice President can't run for presidential elections after the president is gone for whatever reason. Guess what Maduro was before he became president... That's right, he was Vice President. So that means that even if he fairly won the elections with 30 million votes, the whole process is a FRAUD. Maduro has been absolute dictator ever since 2013.

Add the whole thing about him having Colombian nationality and things get even more messy. Guaidó became our president 100% legally by using the art.233 of the constitution. What the US itself thinks is irrelevant. This is what the Venezuelan laws dictate. The more I talk with you guys the more you look like Maduro apologists to me.

[–]fred_red_beans[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

OK, well you can be mad about it or we can agree to disagree.