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[–]LyingSpirit472 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Part of politics, but seemingly at critical mass in the US, is how a politician can walk the tightrope of "get the sane members of the party, never mind the centrists and non-party members, on your side" and "get the lunatic fringe of your party on your side". And every US politician HAS to walk that tightrope to get elected: if you don't walk it just right, you haven't got a prayer.

Focus on the centrists/non-party members, and the lunatic fringe will say you're a fake party member, you're no different than the other party, you're the same as [insert opposing boogeyman here], you'll be just the same as letting their party win, and you won't make it to the general election.

Focus on the lunatic fringe, and the centrists/non-party members will say you're too freaky for them and turn against you because, well, lunatic fringe, and you'll either get killed in general election or not make it out of the primaries for someone who can walk the tightrope.

Therefore, you'll have each party give just enough to the lunatics to make them feel heard while saying to the centrists "can you BELIEVE these assholes?"...and both sides do it (the Democrats have to give the woke psychos their way, the Republicans have to give the fundies/literal Nazis [not the "you disagreed with me" Nazis, but "you genuinely hate anyone who isn't a white Fundamentalist Christian cishet male and want them all in concentration camps" Nazis] their way.)

[–]ClassroomPast6178[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

the Republicans have to give the fundies/literal Nazis [not the "you disagreed with me" Nazis, but "you genuinely hate anyone who isn't a white Fundamentalist Christian cishet male and want them all in concentration camps" Nazis] their way.

That is a very, very good point.

We focus on the woke retards, but the fascist retards are out there too.

[–]LyingSpirit472 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Exactly. We see it from Biden right now, but McCain had to put Palin on to placate the GOP wackjobs. Heck, even Trump had the secular wackjobs, but he still needed Mike Pence to get the "we will not vote for any candidate unless you can convince me Jesus wants them in office" religious wackjobs.

(That may have helped lead to the GOP going from "Christian but still evil" to "outright Snidely Whiplash cartoonish villainy", once Trump cracked the code of "you don't REALLY have to pander to the Christian right; all you have to do is stay in the race until the Christian Right remembers they're a single-issue voting bloc and they'd vote for Satan himself if he was the anti-abortion candidate.")

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

More or less. I remember Trump was very maligned by the religious voting bloc but not surprising there as they are essentially a form of progressive. Course once Trump was the front runner they did a 180 on him since it's him or her.

It's particularly funny, to see someone you know go from complaining at you for pointing out that Trump is likely to win the primary, whine and complain about how crass and ungodly he is, only to see them a few months later talking about how "God chose Donald Trump to be president" and complaining at you when you dare to even criticize his policies.

That's the real code Trump figured he's a sleazy salesman type but he's got the populist speaking points down pat, can placate the religious right with lip service while resonating with the regulars by making simplistic talking points. Really does understand the game of campaigning in the US. Course governing is a bit of a different animal.

The Trump years it was really annoying trying to talk about politics at all since it felt like you'd either end up with the Trump-phobic twitter stans screeching at the one end and the flag waving Jesus people on the other side make it impossible to give intelligent criticism of Trump.

The single issue voters are themselves insane of course. But you hit the nail on the head. Partisan concerns essentially dictate the acceptable positions to take on issues and if you are running as a republican you essentially must run with the most restrictive outlook on abortion possible to hope to claim victory and the opposite is true if you are a democrat. Try explaining to a heavily partisan person on the pro-life side that abortions in cases of miscarriage or for medical necessity such as preventing maternal death are absolutely morally defendable and they'll shriek at you can call you a baby killer. Go on the opposite side and mention that there are some pretty thorny ethical dilemmas with aborting "undesirables", as well as the pretty simple fact that a third trimester abortion is pretty much killing a fully formed baby no matter how you slice it and has its own ethical concerns, and they'll just as quickly throw you under the bus screaming and complaining about how you want to control women or be a Nazi or some shit.

The extremists essentially pull the party to the extremes of whatever the wedge issues are. Abortion, alphabet people. You name it. The nature of activist politics necessarily demands that progressives lead the charge but progressives themselves by the name always need to progress so they'll take the issues to the absolute brink of sanity for the sake of the cause.

I think everyone gets hung up on the idea of progressives vs regressives, right vs left and all that. But I think progressives exist on both sides of any issue really. It's just that there is no singular right path of history or development as many assume. The hardline right christian advocating for what is essentially a theocratic state is pursuing their own idea of "utopia" the same way a godless communist is pursuing theirs.

[–]LyingSpirit472 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Of course- and that's ultimately defined American politics. No matter what anyone goes on, it's all about abortion right now. You're either on the left and think "abortions should be in and out and given out to everyone, especially people I don't like", or you're Republican and it's "this fetus is dead. It's born dead. It has no brainwaves, no heartbeat...if you believe in a soul, it has no soul. It's a medical procedure to take this dead clump of cells not even usable for stem cell research out before it putrifies and kills the mother", and they'd say "...well, if it's born to term, the fetus will become an angel and sit on a cloud and look at Jesus all day!".

Throw in how the extremists have pulled the party to the extremes, and it's moreso- now it's "they're both shit, they're both evil, and it's one or the other. Hold your nose, pick the party who's view on abortion matches yours, and go home and have a good cry that you actually VOTED for that piece of shit.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Ah yeah I don't much like the candidate for my party but that other guy holy shit, he's like if Hitler and Genghis Khan had a love child, his hobby is killing puppies, if he's elected then the oceans will boil the sky will be filled with advertisements your children will be forced to learn ballet and they'll ban vegetables and make you eat pork!

[–]LyingSpirit472 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly. If the extremists taking hold of both parties doesn't hurt it, or the "people view political parties as a sports team and treat them as such" doesn't hurt it, the fact that the US politics are a two-party system, there's no hope of a third party emerging, and indeed if you try voting for a third party, it's throwing your vote away at best, voting for the opponent at worst is what really kills it.

If third parties could sprout up, then maybe it'd save things- the Republicans could split into the centrists, the fiscal republicans, the Christian Republicans, the Trump wackjobs, and the outright Nazis, the Democrats could split into the centrists, the social Democrats, the idpol-obsessed Democrats from each group, the avowed communists, etc.