“Trans women are biological females”, “Hormones and surgery change biology” It’s both worrisome and sad that they truly seem to believe the BS they spew

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[–]QueenBread 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

You know what? I'd love it if they got what they wanted, and it became possible to change one's dna from one sex to the other. Because what they don't understand would happen is - a whole lot of women would switch to male to escape the societal and biological limits of their sex. So, it won't turn out the way they expect. (Remember, even now, a good 70-80% of trans people are actually ftm.....)

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

We'd be having an entirely different argument if it were actually possible to wave a magic wand and change your sex. It would be far less concerning of a social issue as well if it was actually safe and reversible.

Though I suspect a lot of the same issues would remain. If you are unhappy with yourself, that's not going to change if you can just poof into being someone else. You're still you. You still have the same problems.

I reckon there's a lot of grass is greener on the other side thinking going on. I think a lot of women who think somehow being a man would fix their problems would find they've just got a whole lot of new problems to deal with. And those incel types that think they'd be able to get laid if only they were a woman are still going to fail to pick up lesbians. Or men for that matter.

[–]QueenBread 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Although you are right that a "grass is greener on the other side" definitely applies..... I still insist that it's no coincidence that a whooping 80-90% of people going trans are actually female-to-male. We tend to forget that's what happens. A huge majority of trans, is actually women who don't want to be women. Yet, we almost only ever talk about the small percentage of men who want to become women.

This speaks volumes.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Until very recently it's been the other way around. Vast majority of trans identified individuals were men identifying as women.

That has changed in the last decade.

I think it's no surprise that more women think the grass is greener on the other side, not all women are stupid and correctly deduce that dudes rock.

I think the problem comes more on conflating the benefits men have in society with actually being a man. "Oh if only I was a man I could do all this stuff but I can't"

Besides winning the men's powerlifting competition. What exactly does being a man afford you that isn't achievable as a woman? I guess you don't have to menstruate. (You do have to mansplain though).

[–]QueenBread 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

What exactly does being a man afford you that isn't achievable as a woman?

No unwanted pregnancy, faaaaaaaar less likely to endure rape, being taken more seriously, being respected more, not being valued for your looks over your skills, becoming more interesting with age, being far better at any sport, being able to do things like traveling all alone without fear, having society literally tailored to you down to medicine numbers.....

In case you missed it, we live in a world where women got normal civil rights only a literal century ago, and only in some countries. And that already was enough to get some beta males in a hissy fit and try to ruin their rights by pretending they're women too.

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think the reason women have been considered second-hand citizens in history is only because of men. It's mostly because of other women.

But anyway, imagine if you thought being a woman is moving your long eyelashes, spinning a skirt and having men do your bidding at the drop of a hat? That would be like me thinking being a man is about lifting logs and dating multiple ladies.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sure the weird romanticized view of the other sex (which should be considered evidence the person is actually straight) is something that is silly.

I'm talking less about "what shitty things do women have to deal with" and more like, general life goals. Sure a woman can't be a professional American football player (or well, technically she can, but it's not going to happen) but that's true of the vast majority of men as well, we can say it's because of her gender but it's more because she isn't physically capable of doing it, just like the majority of men who are also not physically capable of doing it. But nothing is going to stop the most physically capable women from making a living at sports if that's what they want to do.

Same with things like the corporate world. Nothing preventing women from becoming CEO. But they have to make the same choice as the men there and they're also competing with the most competitive men for the position. Is it worth it to trade your social and family life for corporate prestige? Do you have the social skills and smarts to navigate that world while also having leadership skills? It's not so simple a gender gap. The gap becomes more pronounced at the extremes simply due to the law of averages. But when it comes to us at the individual level we do have to compete against ourselves. Most men and most women will never be on the top of whatever it is simply by the nature of it. It's limited to a few.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Having society not take you seriously is better than your own body not taking you seriously.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

There's a whole lot of more important things men can't do. Having the extraordinary ability to remember my childhood has taught me just how much of a tool I am to nature after going through puberty. I should be gaining cognitive ability and health, not losing it.

Of course, maybe there's just something wrong with me. Other men seem to embrace it.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Health and cognitive ability both decline with age. Healthy living habits can reverse it for a time. But eventually the spectre of death will catch up with us all.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I am a young adult. It happened overnight at the beginning of puberty, and has been getting steadily worse ever since.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

It's because we've liberated women, but men are still fully expected to comply with masculine gender norms. So no one cares when women want to be men, but when men want to be women it's the ultimate sin.

[–]QueenBread 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Or perhaps, I don't know.... it's because women pretending to be men is not a problem but men pretending to be women IS a problem. I don't see women barging into the men's bathrooms to rape them, you know? Nor do I see transmen destroying the male sports league. But you know all of this already, unless you're a complete imbecile.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Most people who talk about trannies don't give a shit about any of that. They even say things like "Yeah I'm all for trans women on women's teams because women shouldn't be in sports!". It's definitely because people are more offended and disgusted by men breaking gender norms. They are just as upset with crossdressers and drag queens who don't claim to be women. You can even see this at a less blatant level: men who are emotional or sensitive or have any weaknesses whatsoever are demonized. Men who need help with anything are demonized. Men who make mistakes are demonized. No one bats an eye if a woman acts either way. And gay men are despised way more than lesbians.

We recognize that men can be predators and abusive. But we seem to be unable to admit that women are also capable of wrong.

[–]QueenBread 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

You can even see this at a less blatant level: men who are emotional or sensitive or have any weaknesses whatsoever are demonized. Men who need help with anything are demonized. Men who make mistakes are demonized. No one bats an eye if a woman acts either way.

Women who are assertive or independent are demonized. Women who don't act feminine and nurturing are demonized. Women who make mistakes are demonized. No one bats an an eye if a man acts either way.

I only agree with you about the homosexuality part - but the fact that gay men are despised way more than lesbians is only another proof that we're living in the patriarchy (as much as this is being said so much that the word is losing its meaning). Lesbians are fine because men can fantasize about them. Gay men are not fine because they make some men uncomfortable.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Maybe if you live in some weird 1950s traditionalist circle (which I admit is becoming more common these days, thanks to SJW whackjobs making people think we need that). Or don't live in a western country. Otherwise feminism has succeeded too well.

Women can wear men's clothes. But a dude wearing a dress is a freak. If you look at every gender role, it follows the same pattern: celebrate women in traditionally male roles, but men must stay true to their obligation of masculinity.

[–]QueenBread 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Otherwise feminism has succeeded too well.

FEMINISM HAS GONE TOO FAR!! WOMEN CAN WEAR PANTS!! WOMEN CAN EVEN BE SOLDIERS OR LAWYERS!! THIS IS GOING TOO FAR!!

Women can wear men's clothes. But a dude wearing a dress is a freak.

Nobody thinks that a dude wearing a dress is a freak. Nobody. In case you missed the memo, the sexually ambiguous metrosexual was all the rage and still is.

The problem is that freaks often wear dresses. Don't confuse one thing with another, pal.

Everybody was fine with men wearing dresses..... then y'all ruined it by making sure it's only creepy fetishists who do that.

If you look at every gender role, it follows the same pattern: celebrate women in traditionally male roles, but men must stay true to their obligation of masculinity.

Which is why there's this push that femininity is not a biological fact, but it's spinny dresses and high heels. Right? This is totally because we destroyed them gender roles.

Oh, fuck off.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

That's not going too far. What's going too far is demonizing men as nothing but pigs and rapists who oppress the innocent angel women, and demanding that women retain the special privileges they have traditionally but not any of the restrictions or responsibilities. I say they should not have either, because I'm not a sexist.