55% of trans women who have 'bottom surgery' are in so much pain they need medical care years later, according to study of dozens of cases — and up to a third struggle to use the toilet or have sex

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[–]LtGreenCo 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I mean it's an open wound that you can't allow to heal. I'm surprised it's only 55%.

[–]handbananasrevenge 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wow, it’s almost the medical industry knew this would happen and knew these surgeries would in effect create “customers for life”, though life in this context isn’t always that long.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

One needs to only look at the pictures of this "procedure" to come to a similar conclusion.

Yet you are transphobic if you suggest that maybe people avoid a procedure that can result in them getting a lifetime of pain. Because I guess being in constant pain and struggling to piss is a small price to pay for not killing yourself?

Or maybe struggling with constant pain and being unable to piss without problems is a factor that drives people to suicide.

Regardless seems very odd that the standard of treatment for this sort of suicidal ideation is to let the person go through with a procedure that might lead to other problems that would serve to make the suicidal ideation worse. Naturally though not wanting people to experience pain and kill themselves makes me a very hateful transphobe wielding one of the most dangerous weapons imaginable, common sense logic.

[–]LyingSpirit472 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Well, that's obviously unfair.

The real thing giving people suicidal ideation is that most of the people telling them to do it have never dealt with a human being who isn't Mommy and Daddy in their life, so the suicidal ideations come from them going "if people won't let you join the cult, threaten to kill yourself and weaponize how your parents biggest fear in life is burying their baby, so they'll let you do whatever you want in order to not risk doing that!".

(Heck, it wouldn't shock me if a lot of the people driven to suicide were done so less because of this and more because of their groomers saying "they won't let you? Look, we need to keep our power by using threats of suicide to get our way, so we're going to have to ask you to take one for the team and actually do it.")

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Oh I definitely think a lot of people are enforcing the the cult mentality by making empty suicidal threats. But ask yourself, they are making empty suicidal threats to obtain what exactly? They get their way perhaps but it's a very self destructive path, physically and socially. And eventually, you're going to end up listening to yourself.

Suicide is also a kind of social contagion. But making suicidal bluffs is beyond idiotic. When you make threats, as part of the simple rule of negotiation, you can't make a bid you can't afford to play. If you make a bluff you gotta follow through if someone calls it.

"Let me get my way or I'll kill myself."

"Ok I guess you can kill yourself then".

Persons only recourse then, is to try to get other people to sympathize with them and make you look bad for calling their bluff. I guess they could actually kill themselves, and many will, but they are doing it because they are insane and making stupid bluffs locking themselves further and further into that path.

You can burn through all your social contacts this way but you'll eventually run out.

Now there's a more diplomatic way to deal with this if someone makes the threat towards you. You obviously can't just say "lol ok kill yourself" without looking like the asshole. You can flip the victimhood, go quiet, look disturbed, say you've struggled with your own thoughts of suicide and suicide of others you've known, and are too disturbed to interact with that person again. Which is not the emotional response they are fishing for, and makes them look like the asshole unless they actually kill themselves.

Either way they aren't a part of your life anymore. But I'd prefer they learn to be better people than taking the permanent option.

[–]LyingSpirit472 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But ask yourself, they are making empty suicidal threats to obtain what exactly? They get their way perhaps but it's a very self destructive path, physically and socially. And eventually, you're going to end up listening to yourself.

Well, there's the problem. These are narcissist hedonists who only care about getting their way, and don't care what they give up to get it.

Now there's a more diplomatic way to deal with this if someone makes the threat towards you. You obviously can't just say "lol ok kill yourself" without looking like the asshole. You can flip the victimhood, go quiet, look disturbed, say you've struggled with your own thoughts of suicide and suicide of others you've known, and are too disturbed to interact with that person again. Which is not the emotional response they are fishing for, and makes them look like the asshole unless they actually kill themselves.

That works. Personally, I like the logical "...so, why should I give you your way to keep you from killing yourself exactly?

If I don't, and you kill yourself, then you're dead. You're no longer a going concern. I can do what I want and not have to bother worrying about what you think.

If I don't, and you do not kill yourself, you just played your card forever. You just proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're all talk. I never have to worry about you killing yourself again. I can do what I want and know once and for all you're just bluffing and you won't do shit.

Either way, I have no reason to do what you say."

[–]slavdude0 9 insightful - 7 fun9 insightful - 6 fun10 insightful - 7 fun -  (1 child)

vaginal discharge

LMAO. From where?

[–]iamonlyoneman 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

It's poo.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Severe side effects were much rarer, but in 12 cases - or 15 percent - patients experienced vaginal stenosis, the narrowing and shortening of the vagina.

Normal people would refer to this as the wound healing.

[–]Adventurous_Ad6212 8 insightful - 6 fun8 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

Bottom surgery is transphobic. If bigots weren’t so terrified of polishing a bit of gal Glaive then these stunning and brave individuals wouldn’t feel the need to seek acceptance and validation via surgery in order to not get murdered. Once again as time and the science has shown us… you may not be killing the trans community but by refusing to fuck them you are literally guilty of genocide against them and queer ideology.

[–]OuroborosTheory 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

that retrenchment/cope/narrative's been around for over a year now--basically "trans" now means "you don't have to have dysphoria, or surgery, or makeup, or dress differently" so it's a noncategory now

and "trans" is transphobic because it implies that "trans women" are somehow different from women or have ever not been women

and it all vanishes in a puff of logic

[–]MikeSopes 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Wait, so mutilating yourself in a completely unnatural manner with a procedure that basically turns your genitals inside-out is... bad for your long-term health? Who would've thought it?!

[–]Femaleisnthateful 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Glad to see studies are actually being done on this.

Exulansic recently did a Vaginoplasty Volumes reaction video to a Canadian trans influencer who is having severe urinary problems 9 years after the initial surgery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sihl6UkFx6I

[–]iamonlyoneman 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

9 years. Yikes, poor fella.

[–]NerveActive 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

It can't be, woke doctors said it worked the same as a real vagina!

[–]hfxB0oyADon't piss on my head & tell me it's raining. 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Who'da thunk that if you go carving up a penis with its 4 thousand nerve endings that it might result in severe, excruciating and permanent nerve damage? This actually makes me feel sorry for these poor deluded guys.

[–]SerpensInferna 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I wonder what these men are actually told by their doctors. Many of them are either delusional enough or deluded enough to believe they will really truly have a real vagina, and it doesn't seem to occur to them that it is an open wound they cannot allow to heal. And that that might just possibly cause long-term problems.

[–]Haylstorm 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's actually quite sad if they aren't told the risks beforehand. Imagine being sold a lie that is pain for the rest of your life, from a doctor who is meant to help you. After all why wouldn't you believe them that there are rarely issues with the procedure?

Like I know if I was told about a surgery to fix my eyesight but they left off the fact that half the time it'd make me blind I'd be outraged that they didn't let me properly weigh up the risk vs reward. Sure there's always a risk but if you're told it's routine and goes well 99% of the time you'll treat it differently to it going wrong 50% of the time. For that I wouldn't do it, for 99% success I'd at least consider it seriously.

[–]ClassroomPast6178 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The Guardian called for more research into the surgical outcomes almost twenty years ago…back when Rusbridger was at least trying to keep the paper rational (Kath Viner becoming editor was an act of pure vandalism, she has ruined a fairly decent newspaper during her tenure as editor). Nowadays I’m sure if someone tweeted that article at them they’d append a full apology and a Owen Jones video to explain why it was transphobic to be concerned that people were mutilating themselves with no concern as to whether it was actually helping them.

[–]Adventurous_Ad6212 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I call for serious funding to organizations that wish to preserve the rights of trans babies.