If the majority of trans people know that the surgical penis/vagina is nothing like a biological one,why are 97% happy with getting surgery then?

submitted by jacques1102 from self.TumblrInAction

I've seen somewhere that most trans people know that surgery wont give you an actual penis/vagina and that they aren't that crazy to think that.My question is then why would that many be happy with getting surgery then?This would be like if i wanted a brand new car but instead got a shitty cardboard cutout of an actual car.I'd feel ripped off.(AKA it wouldn't even be a car.)OTOH if they think that then like i said before,it's not a cure if you're feeding the delusion still.

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[–]ClassroomPast6178 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Ever noticed how they pathologically crave external validation?

That’s why.

They don’t look like women/men, they don’t have penes/vaginas and they know it. So they look for validation from everyone else, and if they can’t get it voluntarily, they try to enforce it by law.

It’s fucking tragic. For want of proper psychiatric care or, for the fetishists, a stern talking to, physically healthy (mentally, not so much) people are being mutilated by a craven, greedy, ideologically possessed medical establishment enthusiastically aided and abetted by a political class that is so ideologically puritanical that it will brook no debate.

The reckoning for all this, when it comes, is going to be awful.

[–]jacques1102[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

And this is where i question the"Majority are happy after getting surgery stats."This whole ideology in itself is filled with contradictions that i'm shocked that it's lasted this long.

[–]ClassroomPast6178 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The underlying philosophy has contempt for and wholly rejects logic, so it’s not surprising that there are logical inconsistencies and contradictions in anything built from it.

They reject the system of thought that built the world we see, everything from the systems of law to the electronic devices we use, and wish to replace it with the ramblings of paedophiles, narcissists, grifters and the mentally ill.

At this point I think there is a sizeable contingent that are operating on the sunk cost fallacy, particularly those with massive student debts from their women’s studies/gender studies/queer studies/black studies/etc based degrees and postgrad qualifications. Then those that understand the bankrupt nature of the philosophy but are just riding the money train (eg Ibram X Kendi, Robin Diangelo) and those that are too stupid to know but see others following so go along with it (the useful idiots), and that is most of the media and political class who will ditch all this when the wind changes but for now will take a knee for it.

The last group are the malevolent actors, the paedos, predators etc. they just can’t be killed they keep popping up (Nambla/PIE etc) and will always use whatever they can to get the access they want to the vulnerable they prey on (children, women, disabled etc).

[–]RedEyedWarriorThe Evil Cishomo 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What they define "happiness" is not wanting to take your own life. Anything to convince themselves that they have not made a huge mistake.

[–]Newzok 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

It's weirdly about validation, in my limited experience. The line was, "I can't go and have sex because they don't know I'm really a man inside and it would be like lying to them. And while they're with me, they will see me as a woman, which makes me uncomfortable". So it seems like it's about being perceived a certain way. I'm so glad I don't have this.

[–]alladd 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

it's only about perception after the attempt to pass fails. it's a consolation prize for the impossibility of actually changing bio sex. like the way some people have kids because they think it'll save their marriages but the parents are still miserable so the new 'road to happiness' becomes making the kids successful so you can live vicariously through them etc. - in both cases neither can accept that the problem is in them, and not outside them.

[–]Newzok 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I wonder how this can be such a potent idea that it has spread to this extent. I'm guessing the, for lack of a better word, advertising has a lot to do with it. But it puzzles me to no end.

Like someone in here said, this shit spreads like wildfire in Special Ed classes. So there's something there...

[–]alladd 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I think it's incredibly simple. And yes advertising is part of it, but really it's just our culture of narcissism playing out differently in different people.

Narcissism (a need to identify, "main character syndrome", causes lack of empathy/inability to imagine the feelings of others) plus lack of social skills = a person who wants to possess intimacy and closeness with the opposite sex but lacks the social skills to accomplish it.

they try to cut out the middle man by transitioning, thus possessing the transcendent "other" permanently. they justify the transition with the same narcissism which says that the rules (and reality) don't apply to them, because they're the "main character" - "the surgery didn't work on any of them, but it will for me!". it fails for all the reasons narcissism always fails, thus the exponential need for more and more transgression.

same reason people get plastic surgery, or cheat, or become influencers. it's all just different varities of trying and failing to fill the same internal emptiness. the only thing that actually works is empathy.

[–]Newzok 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Interesting. It sounds like you got some experience with it?

So how does one counteract this? All I can do is to be a friend and give a listening ear, I guess.

[–]alladd 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

it's the lead a horse to water thing. you can't really help people who won't help themselves. the best thing you can do is encourage them to get therapy, and then hope the therapist is good enough to get them to confront their ego. but mental change is hard, hard as physical change. is it any wonder why people prefer to believe the world revolves around them?

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

Most all of this starts to make sense when you consider this as a mental illness rather than an identity. I don't think it's entirely that much different than rich people who become obsessed with cosmetic surgery and get loads of it done despite it making them look ugly.

I think there's likely to be multiple different conditions that are currently lumped under the trans-umbrella. Gay people that don't accept themselves for whatever reason, prime example of that would be Iran where you either get it done or die, less extreme example is anyone who believes that because they like the same sex it must mean they are the opposite sex than they actually are, due to upbringing or whatever.

Others are extreme fetishists who have let their sexual fantasy take control of their lives. Still others are likely suffering from some kind of psychosis similar to the people who amputate their own limbs. Regardless of the underlying reason these people have become convinced for one reason or another that despite the downsides that the surgery is their only option. Maybe they are holding onto some small sliver of hope that it will make them happy. I don't buy the 97% survey numbers however, post operation suicide rates are way higher than 3%. They probably just lie on the surveys.

Point being that logical sane arguments and explanations for why they want what they want aren't going to be found outside of a mental illness explanation. Unless you wanna get into metaphysical arguments, god messed up the soul distribution and got the boy and girl souls mixed up? You know because even god has to compete with capitalism and he's got labor shortages and deadlines to keep, there's just not enough time to check every soul.

[–]alladd 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

i for one don't care about the statistics or what people might infer them to mean. if you sterilize yourself and cut your genitals off, i don't care how "happy" you say you are on a study. you're fucking lying to them and yourself.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The very obvious truth that cutting your genitals off = crazy isn't one that you can construct a compelling argument against so it's easier to just throw out accusations of bigotry and hate.

[–]alladd 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

LOL they don't have any compelling arguments. I love watching how fast they devolve into emotional appeals. An actual moderated debate with an AGP would be utter disaster which is why it isn't gonna happen.

It's always the same low effort brainless shit about "do what we want or we suicide". A guy does that to his wife, threatens to kill himself unless she stays, it's called being a controlling fuck, but when pervs in skirts want titty skittles it's a national mental health crisis. I say do it.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Consequently threatening suicide is the ultimate emotional appeal and bad debate tactic. Either your opponent does actually want you dead and will be disappointed when you don't follow through with your bluff. Or it gives them the perfect win "Look this person is clearly disturbed, I'm ending the debate immediately and getting them institutionalized for their own safety"

So if you're going along with someone who is smart you'll either wind up dead or institutionalized and tank your credibility regardless. It's a lose lose strategy and the only times it seems to work is when your opponent realized you are crazy and just stops interacting with you because they don't want the drama.

[–]alladd 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think the reason they do it is because the general public doesn't have a very nuanced understanding of suicide and just sort of defaults to "I guess it means they should get whatever they want."

Everyone thinks the solution to the world's suicide problem is MORE sympathy, as if we're not aware enough of it, as if our current public take is "Fucking do it." We cannot get any softer about it.

What about laying the blame at the foot of the suicidal person who leaves behind a streak of unimaginable trauma on their family forever because they couldn't have great sex? It's beyond the realm of possibility and oh so mean to say, but I think these people are emotional terrorists.

[–]ClassroomPast6178 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

I don't think it's entirely that much different than rich people who become obsessed with cosmetic surgery and get loads of it done despite it making them look ugly.

That’s a great observation, not one I have heard before but it absolutely fits.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We all rememeber Michael Jackson right? How he "transitioned" from being a black guy to a white woman? Well not outright stating such or identifying as one. But the plastic surgery addiction and some underlying mental health issue was there plain to see for anyone.

I think when you are rich as Michael Jackson it's easy to find yes men and doctors that will do whatever you ask them so long as you pay them enough. Think it's pretty safe to say the surgeries didn't make him happy though.

[–]Datachost 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

For the absolute richest of the rich it goes a step beyond that and gets into transhumanism. The idea of transcending the body, by being able to alter it at will. It's modern day Skoptsy

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Transhumanism is a topic that we really don't see covered here enough. There's loads of crazy stuff on that front. Seems to take root in the entertainment industry guess cause there's loads of money to chase and a lot of idealists that are good at coming up with ideas but not so good at figuring out how they would work.

People still pay loads of money to have their corpses frozen in the vein hopes that future science will revive them. Then there's been the whole "in 50 years they'll have figured out how to reverse aging" grifts as well.

I think ultimately it all comes down to an unwillingness to be at peace with ones own physical limitations, namely, mortality.

[–]Datachost 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's all ego at the end of the day. The belief that somehow you're rich enough, powerful enough, smart enough to change the fact you're just the same as everyone else when it comes to having an expiration date. For a series that started off as monster of the week and never really had it as a central theme, Person of Interest's last season managed to tackle mortality & transhumanism fairly well

[–]OuroborosTheory 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSNXBvpLb9o&t=160s

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Honestly, I've got a crazy conspiracy theory to cover this:

Transhumanism used to be all the rage there for awhile, right? Cyborgs, brain implants, all that noise? Well, the modern "you own nothing, everything is now a subscription service" idea kinda killed that, because who's going to pay to have an arm "upgraded" when doing so means having to pay rent on a part of your body for the rest of your life?

Enter the transgenders. Convince children they were "born wrong" when either they're young and impressionable or going through changes that literally everyone has gone through that make them uncomfortable in their own body for a couple of years before everything starts working right, then sell them a "fix."

Now, when you've convinced a child to get rid of their stock genitals before they're old enough to even have any idea what genitals do? Once puberty kicks in, they'll pay you literally anything just for you to digitally unlock their junk and let them use it.

Even a young impressionable child knows what an arm or a leg does, but if you convince them to cut off their baby-making bits and rent a new set from you, they're thinking "well, if it makes me feel better to have the custom one installed, then what do I have to lose? It's not like I'm all that interested in making babies, anyways, and if I change my mind, I'll only need to pay them once or twice to make the baby, then never again, so it's win-win"

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I think it's more a case of simple economics driving it. What makes doctors more money? Therapy and or telling the kids to accept themselves as they are? Or medical transition requiring a lifetime of medications surgeries and follow up procedures.

Even if most doctors are moral and not driven solely by blind profit margins, some are, and they'll be successful as scam artists and snake oil salesmen always have been. I mean just look at the opioid epidemic. Turn on the TV and look at the adds for prescription medication. And challenge yourself to find them in the doctors offices as well where they are a bit more subtle. It's all about the money.

[–][deleted] 0 insightful - 1 fun0 insightful - 0 fun1 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That's not all that different from what I'm saying. In fact, what I suggested is just taking what you said to the next level

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

True but I don't think they are thinking that far ahead. Short term quarterly gains and then retire before the shit hits the fan.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I do have my suspicions about the metaphysical side. Because this world is quite literally hell, where you go to be punished for your sins. This alone resolves almost all the contradictions between major religions about the afterlife.

I have heard accounts of people being sentenced to live as a man in a woman's body or vice versa. I don't doubt it, the only question is whether your own gender is inherent to you or also the product of biology. Or perhaps it's just a preference, or an imprint from past experiences.

[–]Newzok 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I do like the idea that this is a hell or purgatory where we go to experience specific conditions and constraints vs the limitless oneness that is our origin; some guys on DMT have been told, "hell is not so bad". Which rings true. Certainly not great, but not the fire pit either. Liveable, with specific strife and pleasure you can only find in that specific hell.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The point is this is not where you want to be! You are scammed into believing the world is good and programmed for years into falling for that scam. The rulers want you to do bad things so they can keep condemning you here forever, with varying degrees of punishment (this is why the same people keep getting impossibly lucky or unfortunate over and over). They designed the world as an awful place, including evil temptations which are impossible to resist. They are basically sadists.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Doesn't track. The entire idea of gendered souls is retarded in the first place. Sex is purely a physical concept. It's a consequence of your biology. An immortal and immaterial soul wouldn't be predisposed to any physical expressions as the entire concept is rooted in the realities of biological reproduction.

It makes zero sense to consider that spirits have any innate gender. That's before we concede the point that it's utter folly to even attempt to use metaphysical explanations for physical concepts. The very idea that one can link the supernatural with science is ludicrous in it's own right because the supernatural by definition is that which cannot be explained by science.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

That's why I suspect it's still tied to biology. Your brain does affect you. Though someone might have a strong preference or just be very used to one gender, but that's not really the same thing.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The entire idea of gender preference or being used to one or the other is also silly. You are yourself you can't know what it's like to be someone else. You can hate yourself and wish to be someone else but you'd still hate yourself if you were them because you are yourself.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not for sure, but you can be pretty sure. Also, most trutrans do like the changes that come with transition...it's just that it also shatters any false hope of a magical pill to change their sex, and they realize they'll still be a mess of amalgamated male and female characteristics. If we had told them the truth from the beginning and been realistic about what can be done for them, maybe this wouldn't come as such a crude revelation. But still, some people don't see the point in a life that's assured to be miserable.

[–]RedEyedWarriorThe Evil Cishomo 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If people around trannies keep "validating" trannies, then the trannies can convince themselves that they've made the right decision. They can deny that they've wasted tons of money, time, flesh and potential into an illusion.

Of course, most trannies don't get crotch surgeries anyway. Gotta keep their bisexual partners happy, after all.

[–]alladd 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They don't want to believe it's not the same thing deep down. They know the science doesn't check out but each one of them is a narcissist meaning each one of them thinks they're "special" and everything will work out for them the way it hasn't for anyone else.

Personally I don't consider the suicide stat to be indicative of anything but the end result of overwhelming narcissistic injury. Killing yourself is just another misplaced attempt at self-identification, at the expense of literally everything else. You played yourself.

[–]WhenImBannedJihad against the woke 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What really boggles my mind is like...imagine your hairline has receded and you want to get hair transplant and you're looking for a clinic. What's the first thing you're looking for? Whether this clinic produces results that are natural looking and "seamless".

Show me one natural looking trans person. Complete with indistinguishable looks AND voice, because if the voice is even a little off then it doesn't matter how realistic the body has become it will ruin everything. THERE IS NONE. If there is it's so rare that its less than 1%.

Explain how these people can look at the trans people and think "wow that was definitely a successful transition I want that!" NONE OF THEM LOOK REALISTIC. Why are they chasing after this surgery having seen that? It's stupid.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It may still be better than nothing in some extreme cases.

[–]tyranicaloverlord 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I bet money they don't talk about it after the fact much. Those who did it are deluded enough to mutilate themselves, and now they have to suffer through buyers regret. If they say anything negative their mob will come after them.

[–]CreditKnifeMan 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That same 97% is the same group who still believe in man made global warming.

Fun fact: 97% of ______ believers, believe in the believer-beliefs.

They swear by it!

[–]jet199 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

It's 97% of the people who don't kill themselves afterwards who are happy.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

100% of people who succeed in suicide attempts no longer indicate that they suffer from disphoria induced depression in surveys, but you'd be retarded and evil or both to seriously suggest euthanasia as a legitamate treatment for gender disphoria.

I don't think permanent surgical avenues are much better unless all other avenues have been explored and ruled out first. Used to be they'd have to pass numerous psychological evaluations before the possibility of surgery or hormones would even be suggested.

[–]unbanned 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Copium.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

What, are they gonna just admit to themselves that they're a dickless freak now?

[–]Haylstorm 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Def feels like a point of no return. Well more likely that they off themselves after it's been botched and they now have nothing working properly. I guess if you're dead you can't say you're not happy with it...

[–]IX-Hispana 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The evidence for it is debatable at best.

[–]clownworlddropout 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is like polling religious fundamentalists and then pointing at the data like, "see, 97% think prayers cured the common cold" like, ok so what? Ask these post-op victims how happy they are after maintaining their meat-mache for a couple years.

[–]hfxB0oyADon't piss on my head & tell me it's raining. 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Bold of you to assume that they're actually happy.

[–]SerpensInferna 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think the simple answer is because they are mentally ill. People who do not have this illness will always have a very difficult, if not impossible, time trying to make sense of it because it makes no sense.

I also seriously doubt the truth of the 97% number, or, the number may come from pre-surgery transpeople. Because let me tell you, the aftermath of both phallo- and vaginoplasties are really nothing short of a horror movie, and the complications are through the roof.

[–]xoenix 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I heard there's like a 1 in 3 complication rate, about as high as any surgery can be. Are you sure it's 97% or are even the ones with complications "happy" with it?

This MtF does not recommend gender reassignment surgery for anyone.

[–]jacques1102[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The numbers i usually see leftist give is in the 90% range and there was one(wish i had the study)that gave that percentage.Another bizarre thing is that the 3% who do reject it i herd is because of social pressure.So basically if there was no social pressure literally 100% of trans people(according to that statistic)would be happy with the surgery.

[–]NerveActive 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It also makes no sense with their dysphoria justification. Like if they have a "female brain" in male body, their brain would still be upset at the fakegina because it's not a real one.