TRANSGENDERIt’s a trap! No, it’s sexual assault or rape! Prosecutors to decide whether gender identity changes consent, after cases of trans-trickery.

submitted by ClassroomPast6178 from dailymail.co.uk

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    [–]Alienhunter糞大名 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I mean you don't need a scientific study to prove that point pictures work well.

    The failure rate of FTM bottom surgery shouldn't be ignored either as it often results in a leaky appendage.

    Really I'd care about this far less if it wasn't for the surgeries and medical experimentation being done on clearly mentally ill individuals. If someone wants to claim they feel like a man or a woman and wants to dress accordingly, I don't particularly care if that's all that it is. But it ends up going far beyond that towards pushing kids into irreversible medical procedures to harassing people and trying to access sex specific spaces where you aren't welcome. It's this sociopathic tendency towards demanding everyone accept your behavior no matter what it is. I think it's a particularly bad position to be in since it forces those people who are confused about their gender and not otherwise sociopaths in with the sociopaths and makes them more likely to become "radicalized" into believing that they need all sorts of things they cannot ever truly have in order to be happy. People who have disphoria should be treated with compassion and we should try to have empathy towards them but that doesn't mean that they deserve unrestricted acceptance. Most of the medical side is problematic as fuck even if we ignore the obvious elephant in the room of profit motive.

    [–]hfxB0oyADon't piss on my head & tell me it's raining. 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Well put.

    [–]Alienhunter糞大名 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    Sexual assault is sexual assault regardless of the "identities" of anyone involved.

    If you use false pretenses to lure someone you are no better than a pedophile rapist luring children with promises of puppies.

    [–]ClassroomPast6178[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    I took it to mean that they’re considering making it an offence not to declare your trans-status before sexual activity, and making disclosure part of consent.

    I expect there to be considerable wailing and gnashing of teeth as the fetishists who dream of tricking men or women have their fetish criminalised.

    This seems to be a good thing.

    [–]Alienhunter糞大名 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I think that various things should be disclosed, veneral disease is another one.

    The problem however is you do eventually end up opening a can of worms over what is and is not criminal for disclosure. Should it be criminal for someone to not disclose martial status before sex? There's a fairly strong argument for that. Should it be criminal for someone to disclose their race or religious beliefs before sex? It can get into the weeds rather quickly and we need to be careful when we create laws that we don't inadvertently create new vehicles by which sociopaths can terrorize others through baseless and unprovable accusations. In this case it would very much be a he said she said situation and unenforceable. He said he disclosed his trans status, she said he didn't. Bit of a legal quagmire can form.

    Now naturally if it's a question of whether or not you should be honest with your date obviously the answer is yes you should. After all it's stupid and dangerous for trans people to play around like that and it's why many of them get killed, and I have little sympathy for them in that situation. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. It's still murder though, and I do think the trans panic defense isn't really a tenable excuse for murder when you could simply leave. Self defense from sexual assault is a good excuse for deadly self defense however. But it's still a bit legal quagmire of what does and does not constitute a justifiable homicide.

    [–]LyingSpirit472 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    I just took it to be a better thing and them finally getting around to closing the loophole of "under UK law, it only counts as rape if a man uses his penis to penetrate a woman", and catching on to "well, what if a woman/trans man uses a toy on an unwilling partner, or a trans woman uses her penis to penetrate an unwilling woman?"

    [–]ClassroomPast6178[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    A transwoman using their penis IS rape. The pronoun HE in the law is not a loophole for transwomen to escape being charged with rape.

    The act of penetration with a penis, whether traditional or “feminine” without the reasonable belief that the person being penetrated has consented, is rape under the law in England & Wales.

    You’re right about toys, using them to penetrate without consent would fall under the most serious level of sexual assault not rape.

    [–]LyingSpirit472 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    While that is the case, the fact laws change is in large part because there's lawyers who are willing to play fast and loose with technicalities. The fact that we're seeing rape cases by transwomen in England and Wales get thrown out of court because the victim refused to use "she" pronouns for their attacker means that we're closer and closer to some asshole lawyer deciding to test that loophole by waiting until the victim referred to their attacker as "she" and then saying "she called my client she! She admits my client is a woman! That means that this is merely sexual assault, and since you didn't charge her with sexual assault and only charged her with rape, you have to throw the whole case out!"- and it's likelier and likelier that would WORK right now.

    So, better to formally close it up and say "don't even think about it. They have a penis, even a feminine penis, they raped them"- and while you're at it close up a bunch of other backwards parts of the law as well.

    [–]ClassroomPast6178[S] 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (22 children)

    The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) has launched a consultation over whether a suspect's gender identity can affect consent in cases of rape and sexual assault.

    Wider guidance on rape and sexual offences was comprehensively amended last year, but a particular section about gender deception will now be updated following a 12-week consultation beginning today.

    The draft guidance will determine whether gender identity could affect consent and address issues over whether a suspect’s gender identity differs from the sex they were assigned at birth.

    This includes whether language used to describe a transgender defendant in a criminal case is appropriate.

    The consultation comes after multiple high profile cases where an offender has tricked a victim into believing they are a different gender in order to sexually assault them.

    This seems to be an area where transmen lead the way, at least in the number of convictions, tricking women into sleeping with them.

    [–]LordoftheFliesAmeri-kin 2.0. Pronouns: MegaWhite/SuperStraight/UltraPatriarchy 7 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

    This seems to be an area where transmen lead the way, at least in the number of convictions, tricking women into sleeping with them.

    Nice to see the other side of the troon coin come up for a change.

    [–]IMissPorn 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

    Probably because trans "men" can actually pass.

    [–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (18 children)

    That's because they pretty much are men and aren't mostly just playing dress-up like mtfs. Humans are female initially, and change during prenatal and pubescent development from hormones. You can always go forward with it but you can never go back.

    [–]Alienhunter糞大名 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

    Lol no. You are right in the sense that appearance and the like is largely effected by the presence of testosterone so FTM do tend to look more like men than FTM look like women. But they still aren't "pretty much men" they can't do the one thing men can do that women can't, you know, impregnate someone, since they are still women and lack the male reproductive system.

    Humans aren't female initially either, your sex is determined at conception based on whether or not the sperm that inseminates the egg has an X or Y chromosome. It is true in the sense that the fetus will develop a largely feminine outward appearance should the male hormones not be present during development as can happen with some intersex conditions, but humans aren't female initially, only the outward appearance is one that is more female.

    Prenatal and pubescent development is just different between the sexes but it's not this nonsense idea that humans are female initially that's retarded.

    [–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (13 children)

    For all intents and purposes they are the same, save for sometimes reproductive organs. At the most extreme ends of this you have androgen insensitivity syndrome and XX male syndrome. I'm pretty sure the latter even has a functional reproductive system. A mtf cannot really accomplish these states because there are far too many permanent effects of male development. The permanent effects of female development are minimal and many do not appear until pregnancy. That's another difference, women get a lot more choice in going through these changes, they don't have to get pregnant if they don't want to. Men are forced into it whether they like it or not. Just the natural order.

    [–]Alienhunter糞大名 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

    The permanent effects of female development are minimal and many do not appear until pregnancy.

    The ability to even be able to get pregnant in the first place is the "permanent" effect of female development.

    [–]Houseplant 5 insightful - 7 fun5 insightful - 6 fun6 insightful - 7 fun -  (8 children)

    What? You went through puberty before pregnancy or something?Weird.

    The rest of us only started menstruating and getting tits after the first baby. By the tenth baby you’ve developed into an entire woman and the penis falls off permanently.

    [–]Alienhunter糞大名 3 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 6 fun -  (7 children)

    Don't be silly all babies are born female but only the ones the patriarchy give the royal jelly to while incubating develop into queens.

    It's MENstruating not WOMENstruating you bigot!

    [–]Houseplant 3 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 5 fun -  (6 children)

    You evil cow you just actively ended lives by claiming men and women are not emotions.

    [–]Alienhunter糞大名 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

    Boys have a penis girls have a vagina. ~Adolf Hitler in Kindergarten Gestapo

    [–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

    Women can't go sterile afterwards? And I didn't say none did I?

    [–]Alienhunter糞大名 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Women can get a hysterectomy sure but that doesn't stop them from being women and magically make them essentially the same as men. I can't even begin to explain how fucking stupid it would be to call the capacity for pregnancy to be a minimal difference.

    [–]Houseplant 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I gotta know what you think these differences are that only manifest after pregnancy, cause your understanding of human sex sounds fuckin hilarious.

    Please go into maximum detail.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    That's because they pretty much are men and aren't mostly just playing dress-up like mtfs

    I love the r/ftm sub on reddit, bunch of crazy, fucked up women. They don't strike me as men at all. They think like women so they write like women.

    [–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I don't consider genderfluid sparkle girls ftm, regardless of what they say. All they want is attention. Most of them don't even seek medical treatment, because they're happy with their female bodies, they only care about the gender role. I'm sorry they're sexists but that doesn't make them men just because they think women have to act a certain way.

    Also, the writing style test can easily fail. People usually try to determine someone's sex based on which one they're more stereotypical of, and it's never accurate. People don't have the social pressures of gender behind an anonymous username. Your impression of /r/ftm is most likely confirmation bias.

    I'm sick of this gender stereotype nonsense, it's the driving force behind most of the recent trans insanity and "gender is a social construct". And people who think they're fighting back by enforcing gender roles again are only reinforcing it.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Also, the writing style test can easily fail

    I admit it isn't perfect. I have confused men for women, and have even been confused for a woman myself due to some usernames.

    Your impression of /r/ftm is most likely confirmation bias.

    It's possible.

    I'm sick of this gender stereotype nonsense

    Ditto!

    [–]OuroborosTheory 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VgG1pXnMfc

    [–]JasonCarswellSisyphus / Ouroboros 5 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

    As a Palestinian Black Lesbian Dwarf I feel I must remind you to believe all women.

    [–]Alienhunter糞大名 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    Yes but trans men aren't women so we can just assume they are all lying.

    [–]JasonCarswellSisyphus / Ouroboros 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    Must I remind you again?

    [–]handbananasrevenge 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I think even the worst of them know, deep down, it’s wrong to not disclose. But because they are shameless cumbrains who care more about their fetish than they do about being decent people, they come up with justifications for lying. They don’t want to further shrink their already very limited dating pool.

    They are ruthless about it to despite it being a big factor behind trans folks getting assaulted or killed.

    [–]handbananasrevenge 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    You can say what you want about people having the right to be themselves, but life seemed a whole lot simpler, safer, and saner when these people were relegated to keeping this shit behind closed doors.

    People will talk about the “social costs” of things like drug abuse but they never want to talk about the negative impact these people have because we have to order society and our laws around their degeneracy.