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[–]jacques1102[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

That's how i feel about the trans movement.It's just so bizarre to me the fact that people, who would in every other situation express scepticism, accept that not only is the proposition that there can be a mismatch between body and gendered soul and that one can know what it feels like to be the opposite sex.

[–]Datachost 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

There's a lot of crossover between the sceptics community and Atheist community (which makes sense) and in many ways they can be put into two camps. Those who are that way out of a genuinely held belief and those who are as a form of counterculture. It's not so much that they don't believe in God, or believe in a general sense of scepticism as healthy thought, but that in the early 00's their political opponents were often unquestioning Christian fundamentalists. Now that gender ideology is accepted amongst their tribe, that's what they believe.

Not to generalise, but there does seem to be something of a US/UK split there, which is why Dawkins has recently admitted to having read Material Girls and agreeing with it, he recognises all of this as just another religion (it's also why he's never been afraid to call out Islam or indigenous religions). I also firmly believe Christopher Hitchens would be calling this bullshit out too, were he still alive. Meanwhile a number of the US stalwarts of the sceptic community such as Dillahunty and P Z Myers have swallowed all of this without question, because essentially they're atheists only because that was the liberal position at the time (though as someone else has pointed out with Dillahunty there is likely another reason). Which isn't to say the UK scene has been without fault, there's barely been a peep from Ben Goldacre, a man who has always enjoyed calling out quack science.

[–]SneakyBishop 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Those who are that way out of a genuinely held belief and those who are as a form of counterculture.

Good point. There are many that think of it as the counterculture position and because LGB and the T position are that way they think "hello friends!" when it should be "why do think you can be a woman?". Hitchens would be disappointed in how far we have fallen. If he could come back he'd say, "What have you been doing, I leave for five f*cking minutes....".

[–]jacques1102[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

What's "Material Girls"and is it a good book to read?

[–]Datachost 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Kathleen Stock's book. It basically argues why words like man and woman need meanings anchored in reality and delves into the philosophy of language, but in a way most people should be able to understand. I'd compare her to Paul Boghossian in terms of their views and how they express them

[–]SneakyBishop 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

and that one can know what it feels like to be the opposite sex

You hit on it right there perfectly. I've said somewhere else "I don't feel like a man, I am a man - there is no feeling involved because that would imply the experience of not feeling like a man."

[–]Datachost 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've always been baffled by "feeling like a man/woman". What does that mean? I'm a man, I don't feel like one. And someone who isn't a man, can't know what it means to feel like one, because they have no frame of reference for that experience. It's like someone who's blind from birth trying to understand colour, they have no way of knowing since it's not something they've ever experienced, so they have to fall back on stereotypes.