Mixed raced lesbian show gets cancelled and journos lose their mind

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[–]LyingSpirit472 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

On the positive side...it's not like Buffy wasn't "woke" by late '90s/early '00s standards.

On the negative side- it's clear it'd be "they'd take the positive roles for identity the original has" and turn them into shallow caricatures where the only character trait is idpol, and anyone who didn't have one would inevitably get one." Kind of like how the comics went, actually.

[–]ClassroomPast6178 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

You’re right, Buffy was definitely the 90s equivalent of “woke”, but I think it was tolerably so. It was from the equality of opportunity branch of the tree, not the postmodern equity branch, I have no problem with the ways the show was progressive.

[–]LyingSpirit472 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Exactly. Buffy did wokeness the RIGHT way because it, like most '90s "woke" shows, were about showing diversity without making it the crux of every character's whole being and making the show about that and only that. The characters were more human, and had hopes and dreams, positives and negatives, and many other character traits independent of their identity.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I've seen complaints from movie critics about how modern woke characters aren't allowed to have flaws. Even if they come off as insufferable, within the storyline the character is presented as something better than what the viewers see.

In Buffy the characters were clearly flawed.

[–]LyingSpirit472 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Well, of course. Remember. These woke characters are specifically built to woke people, and they WANT flat, bland characters who are only their identity.

The flatter a character is, the easier it is for the reader to project themselves onto the character and imagine THEY are the one in all these adventures, and Hollywood knows the Wokesters are such vapid, mindless narcissists they cannot empathize with anyone who's not themselves- so the flatness makes it "this character is like me. No, scratch that, this character is LITERALLY ME, and I'M the one having adventures with all these characters and doing these things and I'm special and not a pathetic loser, honest!"

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The flatter a character is, the easier it is for the reader to project themselves onto the character and imagine THEY are the one in all these adventures,

Holy shit, i had never considered that but it is the exact same way they see men and women outside of movies too.

[–]LyingSpirit472 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Of course, and Hollywood knew that "super flat characters work because the viewer/reader can project themselves onto them" is money; it's been said that Bella being so flat and generic is a big reason for "Twilight" being so successful for that exact reason.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Just anecdotally it seems like the type of person to obsess over twilight is the same type of person who now is susceptible to the whole social contagion aspect. That seems like a more female targeted character like "UwU that's me dating the sadboy glittering vampire."

If we bring radfems into this it also relates to porn. They have been talking about this for a long time but the idea of the porn actress being a flat character plays into the AGP version.

I can't really comment on the flatness of the characters in yaoi because I can't stand actually watching it even for the purpose of figuring out the mindset. All I so know is that it's all written by women so it makes a bit of sense that the fujoshis identify with the characters.

[–]LyingSpirit472 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I thought yaoi was similar to why all-girl porn is popular before AGP, in "it's two sets of bodies to look at and imagine they're revving themselves up for you".

[–]jet199 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There were loads of shows with teen girls as the lead characters back then. I don't remember it standing out on that front at all. Especially as the lead was very much the blond all American girl. It was also just as white as Friends.

[–]LyingSpirit472 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But you have to also remember- in that time period, "having an openly gay character, who actually has romantic relationships" was basically as woke as having a fat black disabled trans lesbian is right now, so it did stand out compared to a lot of the other teen girl-led shows.