all 33 comments

[–]LordoftheFliesAmeri-kin 2.0. Pronouns: MegaWhite/SuperStraight/UltraPatriarchy 16 insightful - 11 fun16 insightful - 10 fun17 insightful - 11 fun -  (1 child)

I haven't watched this, this is the first I've even heard of the show. But I'm going to go ahead and guess that the cancellation was because it's basically nothing more than fetish fuel for the same sort of demographic that would have furiously masturbated over Twilight a decade and change earlier; no plot to speak of, shit tons of fan service and fuckteasing, and lots of "rawr, Imma badass gofik creachure of the nyght!"

[–]beerghal[S] 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

I haven't watched it either but I've heard it just wasn't very good and was also very cheap looking. The showrunner herself came out and complained that Netflix put too much emphasis on the fact that its about lesbians but in this age of identity politices can you really blame them?

[–]ClassroomPast6178Problematising the things you love. 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

Thank goodness they made Buffy the Vampire Slayer in the late 90s/early 00s. It would be completely unbearable if it were to be made today. Was watching a couple of episodes recently and it absolutely holds up and is thoroughly watchable still, twenty years plus later.

I dread to think what a current year reboot would look like, but I guess Joss Whedon isn’t desperate enough for money yet.

[–]LordoftheFliesAmeri-kin 2.0. Pronouns: MegaWhite/SuperStraight/UltraPatriarchy 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

It's amazing how they spun off an entire series (and then a spin-off of that with Angel) from what was a fun, but ultimately somewhat forgettable, movie. Did the same thing with Stargate later on. Goes to show what you can do when you have people who actually give a shit about characters and story foremost.

[–]ClassroomPast6178Problematising the things you love. 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Three of my favourite TV shows.

Funny you mention Stargate, I loved SG1 and Atlantis, the third one had totally the wrong vibe although it just started to improve when they cancelled it.

I have a feeling that Stargate SG1 would be impossible to make de novo these days, and a reboot would be so utterly destroyed by identity politics.

I really worry about what they’re planning to do with the Babylon 5 reboot, I have no idea how woke J Michael Straczynski is, so I hope he doesn’t allow them to destroy one of the greatest sci fi shows of all time.

[–]Wanderingthehalls 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I have a strong fear that JMS is as woke as fuck. He was co-writer of Sense8 alongside the Wachowski 'sisters.' A show that introduces proud lesbian and transwoman, Nomi Marks, by first showing her bottoming for her girlfriend Amanita wearing a pride flag strap on, then remembering how she fell in love with Amanita when Amanita defended her from a mean lesbian who called her a colonising man. The show makes Nomi a woman in every way it can, like having the 8 sensates be four men, three women and Nomi yet Nomi has many, many monologues about her transness, including the speech she makes at her sister's wedding, which her parents didn't want her at as they knew she'd make it all about herself. (Though Freema Agyman does sport bi flag coloured dreads, making me wonder if someone in the costume department was making a point about her not actually being a lesbian if she's into Nomi.)

While the whole existence of Nomi in the show was almost certainly some kind of Wachowski fantasy/activism at play, Straczynski absolutely went along with it. Straczynski has also said that Delenn's transformation to part human is a transitioning allegory and that she was initially supposed to be a more male character, as seen in the pilot, who then becomes unambiguously female. He wanted to portray Delenn as trans and suggestss he only couldn't cast a transwoman in the part because of the early 90s tv execs. I don't know if he is being honest about if that was then his intention or just jumping on a bandwagon that has garnered him huge praise through Sense8. If he really did want to have a transwoman character star in his show back in the 90s and show Delenn's journey, which was deeply noble in the show, as a trans allegory, then I'd question his motive. As now it's a bandwagon for woke men, if he really wanted to show transing as deep and noble in the early 90s, I'd suspect he may have AGP leanings himself, tbh. (It actually makes me a little squeamish now to think about the, played for laughs, scene in which Delenn asks Ivanova about her cramps.)

[–]ClassroomPast6178Problematising the things you love. 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Ahh fuck!

[–]Wanderingthehalls 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

And I've just looked a bit more into JMS and he's the one who wrote "Loki: Mistress of Mischief." So he really does seem to have an interest in writing men turning into women. I dread to imagine what his new Babylon 5 will be like. Hopefully Discovery will kill it deader than the Batgirl movie. (If they will do to the CW, what they are doing to HBO.) I fucking lived for Babylon 5 when I was a teenager. I no longer consider it the best tv show ever and can see how ropey parts of it were, but I never have and probably never will love a tv show like I loved B5. But I side-eye Mr Staczynski now and really, really don't want him to re-do it because I think it would be a disaster.

[–]ClassroomPast6178Problematising the things you love. 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hopefully Zaslav will kill it in the womb, then. Be a real shame to watch them do to it what they did to Star Trek and Londo et al deserve better than the treatment Picard got.

The humiliation of Picard, that Patrick Stewart gleefully participated in, is one of the most tragic things to come out of Woke Hollywood, alongside the assassination of Han Solo, the emasculation of Obi-Wan and the total character destruction of Luke Skywalker and all his achievements. True crimes against the culture.

I really hope Sam Harris’ prediction comes true, that we have another five years of this before it goes the way of all cultural madnesses (Satanic panic etc).

[–]LordoftheFliesAmeri-kin 2.0. Pronouns: MegaWhite/SuperStraight/UltraPatriarchy 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Well, SG-1 and Atlantis both had pretty clear overarching story goals; get rid of the tapeworms in the former and the Wraith in the latter. Once those goals were reasonably accomplished, you had a pretty definitive ending point for each series. SGU didn't really have that.

And I hadn't heard of a B5 reboot. I'm hoping, like you, that it doesn't turn into IdPol crap, but I'm honestly not expecting much from it. Too bad Crusade bombed the way it did, that pretty much poisoned the well as far as continuing the story post-B5 goes.

[–]ClassroomPast6178Problematising the things you love. 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, SG1 started to flag somewhat when they moved to the Ori storyline after the defeat of the Goa’uld.

Crusade bombed because the network aired the episodes completely out of order, much the same way they did with Firefly, except with noticeable continuity errors. Turned it into an absolute mess. I read an article by JMS about what was supposed to happen with the series and it sounded great, but they never really got given the chance.

B5 is being rebooted by CW apparently.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel like Babylon 5 was rebooted as Star Trek DS9. I tried doing a rewatch of B5 not long ago and I just couldn't. The show felt really dated, but I remember loving it during its original run.

[–]wylanderuk 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Hell there is a new Stargate show that is supposed to be happening, but don't forget they did make carter a bit of a ballbuster for part of the first series till Amanda Tapping got them to change that aspect.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hell there is a new Stargate show that is supposed to be happening

I have heard that for the last decade.

[–]beerghal[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Just look at the Charmed reboot and how unsuccessful and woke it was.

There's was some talk about a buffy reboot and you just know theyre going to make Buffy or Willow black. I would really appreciate a new Buffy show if they followed the new comics coming out. I read a few of them and they're really good

[–]LyingSpirit472 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Be fair. Of course it'll be Willow, under the dual "how to be woke? Make a black lesbian" factor PLUS the "the biggest over-arching identity politics we have is all the dyslexic casting agents out there" factor.

Plus it'll add to the shitting on the original, since Tara would totally be trans.

[–]ClassroomPast6178Problematising the things you love. 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Willow had red hair, so she’s gots to go!

[–]LyingSpirit472 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

On the positive's not like Buffy wasn't "woke" by late '90s/early '00s standards.

On the negative side- it's clear it'd be "they'd take the positive roles for identity the original has" and turn them into shallow caricatures where the only character trait is idpol, and anyone who didn't have one would inevitably get one." Kind of like how the comics went, actually.

[–]ClassroomPast6178Problematising the things you love. 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

You’re right, Buffy was definitely the 90s equivalent of “woke”, but I think it was tolerably so. It was from the equality of opportunity branch of the tree, not the postmodern equity branch, I have no problem with the ways the show was progressive.

[–]LyingSpirit472 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Exactly. Buffy did wokeness the RIGHT way because it, like most '90s "woke" shows, were about showing diversity without making it the crux of every character's whole being and making the show about that and only that. The characters were more human, and had hopes and dreams, positives and negatives, and many other character traits independent of their identity.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I've seen complaints from movie critics about how modern woke characters aren't allowed to have flaws. Even if they come off as insufferable, within the storyline the character is presented as something better than what the viewers see.

In Buffy the characters were clearly flawed.

[–]LyingSpirit472 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Well, of course. Remember. These woke characters are specifically built to woke people, and they WANT flat, bland characters who are only their identity.

The flatter a character is, the easier it is for the reader to project themselves onto the character and imagine THEY are the one in all these adventures, and Hollywood knows the Wokesters are such vapid, mindless narcissists they cannot empathize with anyone who's not themselves- so the flatness makes it "this character is like me. No, scratch that, this character is LITERALLY ME, and I'M the one having adventures with all these characters and doing these things and I'm special and not a pathetic loser, honest!"

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The flatter a character is, the easier it is for the reader to project themselves onto the character and imagine THEY are the one in all these adventures,

Holy shit, i had never considered that but it is the exact same way they see men and women outside of movies too.

[–]LyingSpirit472 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Of course, and Hollywood knew that "super flat characters work because the viewer/reader can project themselves onto them" is money; it's been said that Bella being so flat and generic is a big reason for "Twilight" being so successful for that exact reason.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Just anecdotally it seems like the type of person to obsess over twilight is the same type of person who now is susceptible to the whole social contagion aspect. That seems like a more female targeted character like "UwU that's me dating the sadboy glittering vampire."

If we bring radfems into this it also relates to porn. They have been talking about this for a long time but the idea of the porn actress being a flat character plays into the AGP version.

I can't really comment on the flatness of the characters in yaoi because I can't stand actually watching it even for the purpose of figuring out the mindset. All I so know is that it's all written by women so it makes a bit of sense that the fujoshis identify with the characters.

[–]LyingSpirit472 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I thought yaoi was similar to why all-girl porn is popular before AGP, in "it's two sets of bodies to look at and imagine they're revving themselves up for you".

[–]jet199 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There were loads of shows with teen girls as the lead characters back then. I don't remember it standing out on that front at all. Especially as the lead was very much the blond all American girl. It was also just as white as Friends.

[–]LyingSpirit472 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But you have to also remember- in that time period, "having an openly gay character, who actually has romantic relationships" was basically as woke as having a fat black disabled trans lesbian is right now, so it did stand out compared to a lot of the other teen girl-led shows.

[–]alladd 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

LOL i read the article and the issue is apparently that gay-friendly media is too MALE-centric and has too many gay men and not enough lesbians.

as if scenes of erotic vampire lesbians gather no male viewers. no it's purely a feminist triumph.

[–]Melodic_Programmer 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I feel like I see waay more lesbian action in shows than gay male scenes.

[–]alladd 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

of course you do. it's for straight men. like that SNL send-up of lesbian period dramas that always have gratuitous porny sex scenes in them. actual lesbians don't like the kind of lesbian porn straight men watch.

[–]Newzok 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Looks like a big yawn.

[–]soundsituation 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Overall it was just a shitty show. Boring script, no chemistry between the leads, super low-budget and not in the charming way. 1 episode DNF.