Neil Wokeman's lies getting exposed

submitted by beerghal from (i.imgur.com)

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[–]beerghal[S] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

He claimed that he gender swapped the character for story reasons, but we all knew that was a crock of bullshit. The same way a black actor was just "the best person for the job" when it came to casting Death

[–]Datachost 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

The thing there is, sometimes that's genuinely true, Samuel L Jackson as Nick Fury was a fantastic bit of casting. But when the changes are almost exclusively being made in one direction, almost always male to female or white to non white, it casts a fair bit of doubt on that claim. The best actor for the job just so happened to come from the minority that many times? Simple odds would dictate differently.

[–]beerghal[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

The Nick Fury situation is a wee bit different because a black version of him has existed since around 2001 I believe. But I think your point still stands in that a bit of race swapping or gender swapping is fine, but it always only seems to go one way

[–]LyingSpirit472 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not only that, but it's even more different for the black Nick Fury because: Marvel specifically went to Samuel L. Jackson in 2001 to get his permission to base the Ultimate universe's Nick Fury's look on him, and Jackson agreed with the caveat that in exchange for Jackson signing off on the likeness rights, Marvel had to agree that when they were ready to put Nick Fury in movies they HAD to give Jackson first refusal to play the role.

So, world of difference even further than those.

[–]RedEyedWarriorThe Evil Cishomo 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Even if it goes both ways, we shouldn’t let race- or gender-swapping happen too much. It should only happen sparingly, and only if there is room for it to happen, like the race of the character having never been specified or being ambiguous. Race isn’t that big of a deal, but it is a real thing. I want people of different races to get along with each other while acknowledging our differences and celebrating both those differences and our similarities.

[–]LyingSpirit472 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Honestly, that's why I think there's different levels of race/gender-swapping:

BEST MODE: The real, tangible benefit. The company goes to find some creators of the group you're going to and says "you have full creative control. MAKE YOUR GROUP A SUPERHERO." Bonus because it provides REAL JOBS to REAL PEOPLE of that group, and makes it "you may not get to be superhero, but if you work, you can grow up to be the writer/artist for this hero or the actor playing it, and help make the superhero- and that's important too.

GOOD: The Marvel Family: There's a bunch of heroes, each with the same powers, they're all friends with each other and help each other out. They're all equal. Everyone gets a version of the hero.

AVERAGE: The Captain America. The original hero retires, and is replaced by someone of this group. This can be very bad if done poorly, and indeed you have to prep for this for a while (like with The Falcon being so connected to Captain America it becomes "if Steve Rogers goes down, this guy SHOULD objectively become Captain America", no different to "If Bruce Wayne goes down, Dick Grayson SHOULD objectively become Batman.") Bonus: since the retirement isn't necessarily permanent and can become a Marvel Family.

MEDIOCRE: The Nick Fury. The original hero dies, and is replaced by the new character. This is the line, since Nick Fury's the only time it worked and it can easily blow up in their face.

WORST: The Green Lantern. The original hero turns heel, and is replaced by the new character. You're already asking a lot of the old fans to accept the new hero, doing this is just slapping them in the face while you do it solely for the sake of slapping them in the face. If you do this, the new fans will NEVER take to the new hero- no matter how well you write the character, you just gave them a gigantic "Fuck You" to make it clear you did this to spite them, so in turn they'll make the character fail just to spite YOU. [Note: To make matters worse, many creators openly want this reaction so they can cry victim and talk about how mean the nerds are for not accepting wimmins and minorities in their series and turning on it when all you ever wanted to do was give a hero to some other fans who looks like them, honest...and in the process gets them out of the nerd shit and into that sweet, sweet activist money.]

[–]FlyingKangaroo 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That’s a good description of these scenarios.

[–]RedEyedWarriorThe Evil Cishomo 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well done. All good points.

[–]makesyoudownvote 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I mean, only slightly, that just kicks the can down the road another decade. They still changed him from white to black for the same reasons. That said, while I loved the old Nick Fury like our boy David Hasselhoff, basing the character around Samuel L. Jackson was actually a pretty smart move and gave the character a more modern and realistic quality.

That said I'm ok race and gender swapping left and right so long as it can always go both ways. I kinda like the idea if they had Daniel Reed Crenshaw play an alternate universe version of Nick Furry.