DISCUSSIONWhat is worse: the troons or their apologists?

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Obviously the narcissistic troons who claim everyone needs to validate them are horrible. However, I am inclined to say their apologists are even worse. I've known way too many other women (and some men) who support the idea of letting troons into sex-segregated spaces they don't belong in, especially when it comes to trans identifying men in women's sports and locker rooms. I've known way too many women who bully and silence other women (JKR being the famous example, but she is just the tip of the iceberg) because the latter refuses to subscribe to gender ideology. I actually hate these people more because gender ideology wouldn't have gotten as bad if the apologists hadn't enforced it.

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[–]jet199 17 insightful - 3 fun17 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I see them as both the same.

They both want to impose lies and enforced speech.

You could argue the troons aren't as much at fault as they are mentally ill but frankly I think a lot of the allies are as well.

[–]AkbarZip 12 insightful - 4 fun12 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

The enablers. Not all transgender people are like this. Some are people with gender dysphoria who understand they can't change biological sex. There are those who are even active against gender ideology. By contrast, to be an enabler of gender ideology or a radical trans activist, you by definition push absolute bullshit.

[–]LordoftheFliesAmeri-kin 2.0. Pronouns: MegaWhite/SuperStraight/UltraPatriarchy 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not all transgender people are like this.

Hence the use of the word "troon" to differentiate the whacked-out narcissists from the people just trying to get by.

[–]LyingSpirit472 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

On the other hand, the apologists are easier to take down, because unlike troons who are built around their view of "I am what I say I am" and will counter anything with themselves, an apologist can easily be taken down by playing by troons' rules.

The apologist is willing to apologize for and enforce the troons' demands because they truly believe if they do so, it'll never reach their doorstep and they'll never have to do it themselves...so MAKE it reach their doorstep. The simple question set of "would you sleep with a trans person?". and when they inevitably say they're open to hypothetically dating a trans person, respond "Fine. Put your money where your mouth is and do it. I don't want to hear hypotheticals, actually DATE one, actually hook up with one" will leave the apologist helpless. Either they have to actually suck the ladydick themselves (note: they don't want to, that'd mean they'd have to sleep with an ugly loser and they'd rather die than do that), or they decline it and instantly, the troons will descend on them and ruin them.

[–]On_WheelsWe need to secure the existence of the gay race 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

What a simple but effective strategy, you're essentially forcing them to show their allegiance and loyalty. Which the majority do not have.

How delightfully devilish.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

This is why time is not on their side. As their youthful looks fade, the infighting will continue, because narcissists can't leave it alone.

[–]jacques1102 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I would argue the apologists.Before this whole trans fad came to light nobody really cared that much about transgenders.Most people were basically whatever.It wasn't until the activists started getting louder and more obnoxious when it started to get worse.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Very true.

[–]Newzok 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

This is all happening in media. So the apologists. The trannies themselves are not usually confrontational and often just want to be left alone. Know that we're at the point in media where everything is hyperbole and hysteria because it's good for business; the public toilet thing, drag story hour etc are designed to generate controversy. It's fabricated by think tanks and pr companies in order for us to squabble and divide ourselves.

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Here in the US we're at the point where Supreme Court Justices, Representatives, doctors, and teachers (all whom are people with power), are kowtowing to gender lunacy. So while some of it is hyperbole, it's pervading real life by affecting legislative judicial, medical, and educational institutions. People's fears are justified in many ways.

[–]Newzok 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yeah definitely. But is it because its perceived that this is how people want it through what media says, i.e Twitter having disproportionate influence over policy, or some lobby group or both?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think it's definitely a combination of both. Money is a powerful motivator, and it's more likely than not that a medical lobbying group, especially with how profitable pharmaceuticals are in the US, was influencing things. The social media aspect also pushes the narrative of "acceptance" and "inclusion", so money + emotion = the perfect medical scandal. I think it's going to get worse before it gets better, and it will be some time before all the apologists come to see the trans craze for what it really is.

[–]Newzok 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think so too. My pet theory on here is that there will be a huge wave of detrans women speaking out about how they were led to cut their tits off by doctors, shrinks, media. But I wonder if the culprits will get theirs.

[–]SJCringe 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yup. The bullshit with the M&M mascot’s shoes, for example, was purposely manufactured because the company was being taken to court for forcing little African kids to work as slaves and they knew that if they dropped an announcement that had to do with wokeness, people would be too busy bickering to notice the slavery trial.

[–]brimshaeBased Woodchipper Merchant 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Apologists. Troons would quit it if they were told to quit fucking around as they should be getting told.

[–]RedEyedWarriorThe Evil Cishomo 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I agree with you totally. The apologists enable this behaviour from the troons. Gay apologists are among the worst offenders, because the troons are ruining spaces that are meant for gay men and lesbians, but these gay apologists expect me to simp for the troons.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I don't understand why gay people and women support gender ideology when it directly contradicts their own welfare. How do they not see this?

[–]RedEyedWarriorThe Evil Cishomo 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Short sightedness and a lack of critical thinking. Furthermore, a lot of women and gay men care more about looking good than integrity.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Very true. Some of the biggest supporters I've seen of gender ideology are other women, to the point of bullying and silencing other women who disagree with them.

[–]FlyingKangaroo 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

First quick thought: both are bad.

Second though: the troons are bad on their own but they’re a very small minority; the enablers allowed them to become a bigger force. Without them, we probably wouldn’t have all these cursed things that are happening.

It’s one thing when a person (troon) is already deranged/perverted or it’s someone traumatized with a massive victim complex. But it’s the other thing when another person, even not belonging to troon’s family/friend group starts advocating for them. It shows how some people are likely to support them in favors of considering oneself “on the right side of history”, “fighting nazis” and so on.

Part of me wonders whether the enablers are crazy in some other ways (which they don’t want to acknowledge) or whether they’re just so brainwashed they don’t question it. Then there is a difference between the possible social impact of random people being enablers and some celebrities, influential figures, political parties, groups of interest etc. Casual lobbying, which can be used for various purposes, but becomes very sinister in the case discussed here.

It’s both the awful ideology and dynamics of social relationships. For example, friends of troons might often get the feeling of fear that they’re not good allies enough, that they shouldn’t do anything wrong or else they will be guilty of troon’s death, etc.

[–]wylanderuk 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The enablers, but I probably have a much wider definition of enablers than you do.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

What do you define as an enabler?

[–]wylanderuk 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Anybody that espouses "my lived experience" post moderns and anybody that thinks the differing schools of "critical studies" is anymore than a supply of bad toilet paper.

Oh aye and large swathes of feminists.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah those are definitely enablers too. Screw 'em.

[–]alladd 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

troons are worse. an ally's support is superficial and entirely conditional - they don't do a lot of research, don't get very involved, and generally speaking don't go out of their way for the issue, probably because deep down they know there is something wrong with the movement and the rational part of their brain keeps noticing it. allies are easy to peak and will do it to themselves by accident. i did.

troons are narcissists in freefall and have a psychological compulsion to keep the delusion going at all costs.