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[–]r2d2_21 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

Great bait mate, but you're not convincing me to become religious.

[–][deleted]  (10 children)

[removed]

    [–]r2d2_21 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

    The fuck are you talking about? You don't need to “justify” human rights for them to keep existing.

    I'm sorry an atheist ate your ice cream when you were a kid or something.

    [–]sproketboy 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

    For example: The Chinese government is sterilizing Uyghurs (you need the correct spelling to search on google btw). Basically, they're genociding them because they're "in the way". What's your argument against that? That it's mean?

    We can make an argument that God created all people in his image and that all people are equal in the eyes of God. WHETHER GOD EXISTS OR NOT. Since it's unfalsifiable - that part is irrelevant. BUT if a high enough percentage of people don't believe in that then we HAVE NO GROUND TO STAND ON ANYMORE. Get it?

    u/JasonCarswell

    [–]JasonCarswellSisyphus / Ouroboros 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (7 children)

    I still don't understand you.

    Everyone is born with all the rights to do anything you want (including all the bad things). If you're stranded on an island you are free to do anything you can. When there is more than one, it all changes. Only social limitations will remove any "rights" and mafia governments can only take your rights away, never able give you any rights you already had. It first starts from the fundamentals of Natural Law (applicable to all species) in small groups - that you do not transgress (deceive, steal, harm, kill) against others of your kind, and from there it gets more complex as the tribes, cities, nations, or schools of thought grow along with more corrupting centralized power that manipulate and exploit "us vs them" conflicts.

    Fuck equality in the eyes of God and fuck God and his image as he's an irrelevant mythical fiction and we're not all equal. But for social stability and cohesion we must be fair and treat each other equally in a bottom-up meritocracy. Everything else is political corruption.

    Perhaps you're arguing that without God people would not have reason to lead moral unselfish lives. Finding subjective meaning in things (largely in helping others), leads to purpose, building fulfillment, and accumulates joy in life - but our enslavement training and consumerist culture is broken our spirits intentionally in an infinite number of ways distracting and destroying most people's hopes leaving little else besides the hustle. Most people simply don't have the ability to understand this much less the curiosity to search for deeper richer lives - thus they suffer a slow painful death by infinite cuts.

    [–]Alienhunter糞大名 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    Rights are unironically a social concept and don't actually exist. They only exist in a society where everyone agrees that they exist.

    The concept of God here is to try to abstract that a bit and give society a point at which to rally around and take the guilt and onus for unpleasant decisions, such as having to restrict the rights of others such as criminals in order to protect the rights of society as a whole.

    The problem I think we come to is while you and me can argue for a completely rational and materialistic basis for why we should have morals and find meaning in helping each other out, I don't think a lot of people can. They will essentially just say "if I can take something for myself and enrich myself I shall even if it leads to the detriment of society as a whole".

    Without the concept of some kind of a higher power being used people will invariably decide they are the highest power and act in manners that resemble anarchy which of course removes humans major evolutionary advantage in working together for the sake of the whole while still maintaining the individual will and room for creativity and growth. In our case we may well find that higher power to be society as a whole, which is a perfectly rational argument to make, but many others will not grasp that concept and need the personification of that to be a guiding force in their lives. It is precisely why atheistic communist revolutions tend to deify their revolutionary leaders as a personification of society. Like Kim IL Sung. Mao, Ho Chi-Minh, etc.

    Without God, humans will create their own god to fill the void. As they have done before. So they shall do again.

    [–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

    If all higher powers are just mythical then everything is just mythical, in which case that fact is irrelevant, because you're here anyway.

    This is an inherently evil realm of indifference, the only thing it cares about is natural selection, and we are all the lab rats. Anyone pretending it's good or that it is even itself God is either deceived or in denial or lying. "Nature" is one of the worst basis for morality for this reason, and yet it's all anyone seems to look to. It helps advance the species or the tribe, a stupid, pointless game, and yes I dared to say so.

    [–]JasonCarswellSisyphus / Ouroboros 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

    Agree, except for Nature being indifferent, the worst, or immoral - all subjective judgements. It just is. And it's just rational logic.

    But as individuals with subjective interests, it's up to us to find our own deeper meanings in life - or not, or be a sheeple and have others decide for you.

    And yes, life is stupid, pointless, and full of needless suffering - along with good stuff too. Worth it? You decide.

    [–]sproketboy 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Yeah, that will make a good civilization. NOT.

    [–]JasonCarswellSisyphus / Ouroboros 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    Better than what we're stuck with.
    "Govern me harder daddy!"

    [–]sproketboy 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    [–]JasonCarswellSisyphus / Ouroboros 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    You should know there's also a Bill Of Rights.