TRANSGENDERTransitioning "the biggest mistake of my life"

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[–]Alienhunter糞大名 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Nasty people have nasty outcomes. Karma is a bitch.

Still doesn't mean that we can't have awknoledgement of the crazy cult like behavior and brainwashing going on, but it's not a coincidence that cults are filled with insane nasty people that can't make it in normal society so they gravitate towards them instead.

But that doesn't mean everyone involved is a sociopath, many aren't, and we need to not be nasty to them lest we turn them off further.

There's only one way to deal with suicide baiting, "this conversation is now over" and walk away. Gotta stonewall that and not respond at all.

[–]LyingSpirit472 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

There's only one way to deal with suicide baiting, "this conversation is now over" and walk away. Gotta stonewall that and not respond at all.

No, no, facts and logic also works with suicide baiting: "...and?

Now that you've put suicide on the table, there are two possible ways this can go: Either you will commit suicide or you will not commit suicide.

If you do commit suicide, you'll be dead. Your opinion will no longer be a going concern. I have no reason to do what you say.

If you do not commit suicide, you just played your card and said you're only threatening it to manipulate me into giving you your way. You just proved once and for all you're all talk and you don't have the balls to do it. I have no reason to do what you say.

Either way, I don't have to do shit."

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Yes you are of course 100% correct, this is the breakdown about why the suicide bluffs are stupid, logically.

The point of the suicide bluff is relentless illogic though, it's emotional terrorism. The whole function of the gambit is to trap you by getting other people to jump in and defend them while demonizing you while taking attention away from them. IRL directly calling the bluff doesn't work and the best strategy is to simply stop playing the game and stonewall then as soon as the card is laid. Don't say anything to them then and there about it. If people call you out on it later you can simply claim the suicide threats triggered you and that you had to leave to protect your own mental health, true statement, paints your opponent in the negative light. Effectively calls the bluff without risking you. And gives you grounds for harassment charges should they approach you and do it again.

[–]LyingSpirit472 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Honestly, though,even the strategy of stonewalling them doesn't work there, since the whole point of the suicide bluff gambit is that it's become a "Get Your Way Free" card. The reason the gambit works to get other people to jump in and defend you while demonizing you, is because once they play the gambit, anything you do or do not do, except "cave and give the person their way", is inherently seen as "you don't care if they kill themselves! That means if they do it, it is now your fault they did it so you literally murdered them!" Even claiming you were triggered by their threats will just be met with "well, if you were also a victim of it, then you should KNOW how important it was to not cause them to do it!"

With that in mind, ripping the hatred off like a Band-Aid and say "you want me to be the bad guy here? Fine, then. Say hello to the Bad Guy, but you're still not getting your way. Cope and seethe."

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Hello Mr. Bad guy say hello to HR.

Vs hello HR I'm being harassed with Suicide threats from X and I don't want to talk to them anymore because it's negatively effecting my mental health.

Essentially "If I don't get my way I'll kill myself". Countered with "I'm going to kill myself if you don't stop threatening to kill yourself"

A perfect defense.

[–]LyingSpirit472 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ultimately, though, this is where we're both wrong. We're both coming at the argument here through logic when the opponent is wholly illogical.

You're right with the first one and "the second you admit to being the bad guy, the opponent will go to HR and get you punished for defying them...but truth be told, they probably already WENT to HR, and in an HR case, because they're higher on the progressive stack they just GET TO WIN. You can show them acting like this in Macy's window, right in front of every HR employee in the company, all of whom visibly see them as the aggressor in the scenario, and HR will STILL take their side. They'd have to- HR will take the side of whoever will be more costly in a lawsuit if they sue, and more importantly, they'll discriminate against the person who won't cause them to lose their job if the person files a discrimination lawsuit. The mere threat of the TRA suing will make HR and anyone they please's head roll, but if you sue, then you WILL lose in court, and even if you win in court, the "court of public opinion" will take the company's side. The HR person might even get a promotion for "this cissie was sooooooooo MEAN to me for oppressing us for fighting the lawsuit filed by this poor innocent trans cinnamon roll who's just inherently incapable of doing nothing to no one, honest!"

Likewise, your "If I don't get my way I'll kill myself." "If you don't stop threatening to kill yourself I'll kill myself" logic fails when you remember these people are cluster B assholes and hypocrites. Even using a suicide gambit against them won't work because they truly don't care if you hurt yourself, they'd WELCOME the world losing someone who dare defy them, and it's okay if they use the arguments we're claiming against anyone else but not if anyone else uses them against that person.

[–]1-800-FUCKOFF 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That kinda leaves out the actual leverage they get from the suicide threat

  • I won't be there anymore, which sucks for you if you enjoy having me around.
  • If I kill myself because you wouldn't help me, you'll feel guilt.

Your opinion will no longer be a going concern. I have no reason to do what you say.

Yeah, I mean... Thar's why suicide baiting a stranger who doesn't give a fuck about you doesn't work. Friends and family though? Different story.

[–]LyingSpirit472 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Even with the leverage, that just distills it to the five-year-old threatening it on "if you don't do what I say, I'll kill myself and you'll be SOOOOOOOOOOOO SORRY and you'll cry and cry and say 'Oh I WISH I just gave them their way so they'd still be alive today!' but you won't be able to because I'll be dead an' literally everyone in the whole world's gonna know you caused me to kill myself an' know you murdered me an' everyone in the whole world's gonna HATE YOU FOREVER for this an' you'll have no choice but to kill yourself TOO!"- and that is why "if your opponent is arguing like a five-year-old, you have to respond like you would to a five-year-old."

Friends and family is a different story, but then it becomes "...yeah, you obviously hate me enough to commit a recognized act of domestic violence against me. If you choose to abuse me, you clearly aren't pulling your weight in this relationship and honestly I might be better off without you."