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[–]Vulptex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Female refers to a specific reproductive role in a species that reproduces sexually

Ideally it would, but humans are overly sexually dimorphic, so those reproductive roles have a lot of side effects. In fact, being male remodels nearly every single aspect of your body.

I think we could say people who had heir genitals removed and had facsimiles of the opposite sex's genitals created on their bodies by surgeons are transsexuals regardless of if they adopt the term or not and regardless of if they adopt a different term.

The key distinction is whether the person has an actual issue with their sexually dimorphic biology, or they just think "gender" is a question of identity and personality and think they "feel" like a different one. One is a neurological or intersex condition, and the other is mostly about masculine or feminine personality (which in my opinion is just snowflakes looking for more labels to feel special about). One primarily wants to change their sex because of dysphoria, the other wants to change their social "gender" and often disregards biological sex, thus transsexual and transgender. This distinction is extremely confusing for most people, because gender was a synonym for sex until a few years ago when the snowflakes invented "gender identity". But there's a pretty big difference between liking certain types of toys and clothing versus how the other sex's body develops over your own.

Too often though it is not at best and it damages the person entertaining the idea and too tragically often it damages those around the individual if for no other reason is they try to find ways to accept and even repeat lies.

The transgender movement wants to recruit as many people as possible for their political agenda, so people who are simply gender nonconforming (especially tomboys) are constantly being told they're transgender. And because people don't understand the difference between transgender and transsexual (and often deny it, because biological sex doesn't exist according to them), and big pharma wants more money, the former is all too often rushed into medical treatments meant for transsexuals, which of course ends up giving them dysphoria instead. Pure evil.

I also should point out that you have not dealt with your use of the No True Scotsman fallacy.

The mere existence of this fallacy doesn't mean it's impossible for people with an agenda to hijack something. There's very clearly two distinct groups of people we're talking about here, regardless of how easy they are to confuse.

Phew, that was long. There's a lot to unpack here thanks to the snowflake movement.

[–]FlippyKing 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

I don't see how the fact that we are sexually dimorphic alters what a man or a woman alters in any way. Men and women are the two and only to categories for the two and only two roles in our sexual reproduction. The dimorphism follows from that, it is not equal to it and does not replace or become any kind of "either/or" with it. It is a coincidence with regard to the matters at hand, a potential red herring perhaps. So when you say "Ideally it would", I respond: it simply is.

When you say "The key distinction ...", what key distinction, and between what is distinguished? The distinction you seem to make has to do with one's supposed motive which can never be known to anyone other than the person if it is even known to them. People change their stories over time always, why we did something gets lost to history and to revisions and refining the the story in response to the life lived after what ever he story is about. This can be no distinction of any use. Let's stick to observable and measurable things and not rationalizations that must be taken on faith.

I agree the transgender movement needs to dupe people in order to advance and in order to further believe the lies they tell themselves. I disagree about that it is people not understanding the difference but I think most people assume that people who claim a transgender identity have undergone the surgeries already mentioned. I think the difference (or differences, but I think there can only be one) between tg or ts only becomes a question in people's minds when they realize tg people do not often have their bodies altered surgically.

The fallacy exists, and people hijacking something exist. But you can not claim someone is not a transsexual just because they did or do things you or I dislike. That is the True Scotsman fallacy and that is what you did. This person may or not be transsexual. We have to define that word in meaningful way and I prefer a way that is measurable. Identities that merely have to be claimed are worthless and meaningless, to me anyway. If you want to prove the person in question is not transsexual, you can not appeal to a logical fallacy.

There is really very little to unpack thanks to the snowflake movement because we do not have to argue on their terms. Their terms are always shifting and ultimately meaningless. Let's stay with material reality.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (13 children)

I don't see how the fact that we are sexually dimorphic alters what a man or a woman alters in any way. Men and women are the two and only to categories for the two and only two roles in our sexual reproduction. The dimorphism follows from that, it is not equal to it and does not replace or become any kind of "either/or" with it. It is a coincidence with regard to the matters at hand, a potential red herring perhaps. So when you say "Ideally it would", I respond: it simply is.

Usually a human is wired to deeply desire those sexually dimorphic traits, and in transsexuals this somehow went wrong. Think about how excited normal kids get seeing themselves grow into a man or woman, with little knowledge of sex or reproduction. And those who aren't asexual usually do have dysphoria over their reproductive role, but we can't change that yet.

When you say "The key distinction ...", what key distinction, and between what is distinguished? The distinction you seem to make has to do with one's supposed motive which can never be known to anyone other than the person if it is even known to them.

It's not the motive, it's what they're transitioning. Transsexuals want to try and become the other sex, transgenders just want to change their "gender identity". Remember, the latter believes those are separate, and many of them don't believe in sex at all.

I disagree about that it is people not understanding the difference but I think most people assume that people who claim a transgender identity have undergone the surgeries already mentioned. I think the difference (or differences, but I think there can only be one) between tg or ts only becomes a question in people's minds when they realize tg people do not often have their bodies altered surgically.

Which means they don't understand the difference between tg and ts, because they think they're the same thing. Which is the problem I think. Transgenders end up representing transsexuals, who are completely different.

But you can not claim someone is not a transsexual just because they did or do things you or I dislike.

No, but when they claim the female gender yet do things feminizing HRT should make them unable to, it's pretty obvious. This type of pervert is a common trend among the transgender community. They can access womens' bathrooms, locker rooms, sports teams, etc. just by saying they're women.

[–]FlippyKing 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Usually a human is wired to deeply desire those sexually dimorphic traits, and in transsexuals this somehow went wrong. Think about how excited normal kids get seeing themselves grow into a man or woman

What? Adolescence is hell for most kids of both sexes. Few kids mature into the ideal body for their sex and they obsessively compare themselves to peers they too often see as superior and they hate it. It is no different than for those you are calling transsexuals-- but you are now OBVIOUSLY abusing the term no differently than how transgender activists and queer theory advocates abuse words and obliterate mean.

Transsexuals want to try and become the other sex, transgenders just want to change their "gender identity". Remember, the latter believes those are separate, and many of them don't believe in sex at all.

Wow, you are kidding yourself when you think you are somehow different than the transgender activists. "want to try and become ..."? NO. They do not become, nice word play to try to sneak that in. What does "want to try" even mean? You've already taken a clear step back from the notion that transsexuals are surgically neutered and altered such that they replace genitals with facsimiles of the opposite sex's genitals. You are saying that they are people who want and try-- so full-time drag queens except you'll insist "but no because we're for real and we mean it" or some bs. Or maybe you're colonizing TS the way woman is colonized by men pretending to be women under the guise of transwomen. And after that with your "remember ...", NO we are not in agreement and what ever you remember is a false memory.

No, but when they claim the female gender yet do things feminizing HRT should make them unable to, it's pretty obvious. This type of pervert is a common trend among the transgender community. They can access womens' bathrooms, locker rooms, sports teams, etc. just by saying they're women.

Why do you think feminizing HRT would make them unable to do anything anyone else can do? Where there's a will, even a perverted will or perhaps especially when there's a perverted will, there's a way. Do you think drugs are somehow magic or somehow doctors have such mastery over the human body to make your assertion real? Your idea defies basic principles of pharmacology. Drugs assist the body to do what it otherwise would naturally do except for some problem. HRT fights the body-- all bets are off in who wins that fight and no amount of marketing or bs told by people selling those treatments will change that fact. It's like fighting the laws of thermodynamics, drugs are not magic and the body fights.

I do think we're done here. Your version of transsexual is no different than transgender, no matter how much you lie to your self.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Few kids mature into the ideal body for their sex and they obsessively compare themselves to peers they too often see as superior and they hate it.

Exactly, and transsexuals show the opposite pattern. This isn't tied to arbitrary gender identity, in fact most of them don't even realize this is gender dysphoria at first and assume everyone feels like that.

The rest of your response doesn't make any sense and is full of anger. It feels like you're just trying to maintain your original assumptions for the sake of having them. These are the dangers of identity politics, where you tow your party line regardless of what you discover. If you're really interested, search up transmedicalism or "truscum". I'm hardly alone in saying this, regardless of what both sides of the culture wars want you to think.

[–]FlippyKing 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Exactly, and transsexuals show the opposite pattern.

The opposite pattern from what? That they mature into the ideal body? You're talking in circles, and you are using a ridiculous definition of transsexual that is no different than transgender.

You mistake anger in my words with my simply being frank and my intolerance of your weasel words and bad rhetorical ploys. You've simply proven yourself to be a bullshit artist. That's not anger, that's simply what you are. You use logical fallacies, you appeal the same inner feelings for your arguments and your definition that transgender activists. You pretend you're different when you're exactly the same as them, and what ever feelings you think set you apart are just universal.

As I said earlier, we are done here. You're just a troll and a bs artist.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

The opposite pattern from what?

Normal kids want the ideal body for their sex. That would be a nightmare for transsexuals.

You still haven't looked up what truscum means.

[–]FlippyKing 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

why would I waste my time looking that up? Also: regardless of what you want, you get what you get and you are what you are.

The idea that a transsexual wants the body of the opposite sex doesn't mean anything. What you want defines nothing about you, it defines what you lack. Obsessing over it is a dysfunction. Labeling the dysfunction and pretending it is somehow unique is silly. There are many ways a person can get wrapped up in their unwillingness to accept reality, all of them share the same quality: the person wrapped up in them is living a disordered life through their unwillingness to accept reality. No amount of BS can change that, be it "nightmare for transsexuals", or a drug addiction, or throwing a fit over every small obstacle one encounters, or obsessing over some old flame whenever a relationship has a problem. A transsexual is not someone who needs to be the other sex anymore than an drug addict is someone who needs drugs.

A transsexual is someone who needs to accept their material reality and get out of their imagination the same way a drug addict is someone who needs to quit drugs. That your definition of transsexual is not materially different than other people's definition of transgender doesn't matter, except for your unwillingness to accept that you are no different than they are.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

You're still describing transtrenders. Transsexuals are born with a neurological condition.

[–]FlippyKing 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

That's the same claim made by most trans genders and trans'trenders' as you call them, their allies, and of you. You have three labels for the exact same group. You want to claim a label, woman, for yourself even though this term is about reproductive capacity and you want to pretend some inner thing you have supersedes the actual definition.

If you were born with a neurological condition is irrelevant to your sex, which is binary. If your genitals work and you are not one of the 0.04% of the population that can be genuinely described as having a dsd that makes their status in that binary difficult to define, then you are a man or a woman but you are not "trans" anything. Many men and women have neurological conditions, that changes nothing about their physical reality or their sex.

So, when you say I'm describing "transtrenders', I say I am describing you.