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[–][deleted]  (16 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Marou 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

    Aye

    https://www.gra.ch/en/rassismusstrafnorm/provision/

    Being under Swiss law isn't a good thing. If you host a free speech platform the US is the only country that still applies. Ethnically diverse empires always fragment and balkanize along ethnic and/or religious lines over time, it's a story as old as humanity. Increasingly draconian laws are needed to hold together such societies since humans crave self-determination and nobody can live how they please in such an environment.


    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/freedom-of-speech-_anti-racism-law-facing-resistance-from-the-right/38754354

    A few examples from the link:

    Anti-Muslim ideology A man wrote an article entitled: “This is why we shouldn’t give Swiss citizenship to Muslims”, which was published in an unspecified political party newspaper. The Thurgau court found that the article made defamatory claims about Muslims as a group and rejected the defendant’s argument that Muslims could not be subject to anti-racism law as Muslims were not a race.

    The man was fined CHF170 plus a suspended fine of CHF5,400.

    Source: Court summary published by the Federal Commission against Racism.

    The former president of the Federal Commission Against Racism (1995 – 2011), Georg Kreis, wrote an opinion piece in the tageswoche.ch news website in January reacting to just such a case, lamenting the fact that a comment made by a “satirist” in a television interview drawing on the stereotype of the “money-grabbing Jew” had led to an official complaint to prosecutors.

    Alexander Tschäppätt, Bern’s Social Democrat mayor, also found himself in hot water after jokes he made in a stand-up comedy routine last December about Italians being lazy didn’t go down well. A Swiss-Italian lawyer in Basel made a complaint against him which is now being examined by Bern’s prosecutor’s office.


    For now at least, speech restrictions are minimal in the US. Freedom of association is well and dead, and you can't peaceably assemble anymore depending on what your views are because the police won't protect you from communist agitators (and will prosecute you if you protect yourself), but at least we can bitch about it online for the moment... (anonymously, lest you lose your job and ability to conduct financial transactions).

    [–]wizzwizz4 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

    Considering how many people will be arguing each way on every topic, I doubt anyone will get involved. They probably would, however, if the site gets big and completely overrun with Pyramid-ignoring racists (which fortunately isn't the case at the moment).

    [–]Marou 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

    The problem with "Anti-Racism" and "Hate speech" laws is that you can make an argument that is situated right at the top of the debate pyramid (and back it with reams of evidence) that is still illegal - because under such laws it is not the truth of a statement being evaluated, it is intent and how the statement makes people feel.

    [–][deleted]  (12 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]magnora7[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

      Switzerland doesn't have dragnet spying operations. Switzerland can't shut down saidit without first going to a judge and getting approval.

      In the US, they can just decide we're done and pull the plug one day. In Switzerland, they cannot do that without a long process that would give us plenty of time to set up a new server.

      This is an extra layer of security.

      And if you believe the laws in the US about internet free speech are actually being honored to their true intent in 2019 in US courtrooms, I have a bridge to sell you.

      Overall I have little doubt this provides saidit more layers of security and failsafes. US law isn't bad, but Swiss law is better. Especially when it comes to avoiding having your server shut down by external organizations.

      [–][deleted]  (7 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]magnora7[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

        even in Switzerland.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial#Switzerland

        Thankfully you're wrong on that. The racial discrimination law they do have matches up with the pyramid of debate fairly well. I actually think it'll work out well.

        If they seize the server, we can just set up in other country. If they seize it in the US, I might go to jail and be unable to do that at all. This is another layer of security.

        I think Switzerland is much safer, and they fact they don't fuck around protects us from big organizations more than it hurts us. But I appreciate the concerns and the points you raise, and I'm all ears if you've got more points.

        [–][deleted]  (2 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]magnora7[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

          Thanks for the info. We have considered a VPN, but it's not compatible with our DDOS protection. We'll be sure to keep an eye out for the problems you mentioned.

          [–]Timmy 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

          A question. What if they do not deny the Holocaust existed, but claim, based on recorded International Red Cross documents, that the number of people that died in German WWII prison camps was much lower than six million? Do you think that would be considered illegal? The fact is not in dispute, just a supporting claim.

          [–]sodasplash 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          Maybe the press could help by reporting the details of the case.

          [–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          In the same way WikiSpooks provides a site backup https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Wikispooks:Site_Backup maybe SaidIt can do the same as a baby step towards decentralization.

          [–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

          I concur. Another aspect to privacy is anonymity, which obviously is not a concern of mine.