Saidit.net — Feb 5, 2019 — Minor site fixes and updates, full self-voting, removed all remaining mentions of gold, removed useless preferences tabs

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[–]wizzwizz4 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

Remind me in June, and I might be able to put together a framework for you. It'll be on you to help populate it, though.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

  1. The first thing you said remains unclear. I can't tell if I need to act to correct something, defend something, agree with something, or just shrug.

  2. You have to be more specific about what you mean by "framework" and "populate" and why for me, and why in general.

  3. I'm not reminding you of anything in June. Remind yourself.

[–]wizzwizz4 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

  1. Act on something. If this still seems like a good idea in June, remind me if you still want me to have a bash at it. I don't have time just now, but I've an idea how I'd implement something like that.
  2. The "framework" is the code; many programmers falsely believe that this is the most important part of anything when in fact it's almost always the community behind it that is. I might write you some code, but founding and managing a community in its fledgling stages until it's self-regulating is too much for me to do again – especially from actual scratch which I've never done before.
  3. I've got no way in which to remind me of this. If you want me to make it for you, remind me in June and I might (no promises!). Otherwise, feel free not to.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

I still don't know what you mean in #1 and #2.

3 - You mean you could code a seemless Wikipedia over-lay addon? If you are willing to try I'm willing to help any way I can (even if just flowcharts, GUI, or graphics stuff) - and I guarantee you I WILL NOT FORGET. To do that would be HUUUUUUGE! REVOLUTIONARY.

Now if you could somehow do a decentralized version, including my ideas above... "decentralized Wikipedia over-lay, that would include extra content, including counter-narratives, alt-perspectives, opinions, articles, fancruft, fringe, and original wiki content - yet utilizes the existing deep encyclopedia. That left hand margin is mostly empty. The first one to do it will be my hero forever."

I don't know if that means it'd be in Mastodon, the Fediverse, IPFS, Holochain, ZeroNet, etc... I'm also quite sure folks at WikiSpooks, InfoGalactic, and all the other wikis would go ape for this.

[–]wizzwizz4 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

How's this for a start?

https://github.com/wizzwizz4/wikinotate

I don't have much time to spend on this project, and I really should've done other things for the past few hours, but this project has clicked and I keep coming up with ideas for it.

I know that Microsoft's taken over GitHub, but so far they haven't done too much bad stuff with it so creating an account should be safe. If you do so, please could you add feature requests in the issue tracker?

[–]JasonCarswell 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (11 children)

Awesome start! (Though I haven't tested it yet.)

Interesting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solresol article. Why did you pick that one?

I know there are many Git alternatives. GitLab is one, but I think they have an "owner" too.

This is great. I've commented on Git before, but never "watched" or contributed. Excited old dog learning new tricks.

I've got huge list of things I want on Wikipedia that can be chipped into, but one thing at a time.

I added 3 humongous requests to the issue tracker. I'm thinking big. Maybe I'm just a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.

[–]wizzwizz4 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

This made me smile. (Is that an appropriate use of "funny"? I think so.) I picked Solresol because it wasn't too controversial and I had it open anyway. I'll get to the feature requests after I've done some actual proper work, which I should be doing right now.

[–]wizzwizz4 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

WikiNotate has seen significant updates since last you saw it. It's now easy to test and easier to use. Direct link for the lazy GreaseMonkey users; you can test it on the Solresol article.

Still completely read-only, though! ☺ I've implemented maybe one of your suggestions maximum, because it's so HARD TO PROGRAM SOFTWARE. It'll request data from elsewhere in a bit, and might eventually have something with borderless <iframe>s to allow inline editing of content; we'll see!

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I haven't even looked at it yet but I think this is great. I think you should post it to discuss in it's own post.

I'm sorry to have distracted you from whatever you were supposed to be busy with until June.

[–]wizzwizz4 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Meh, I'd have managed that [to distract myself] anyway. I'll try to avoid working on it for now. :-)

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Okay. Great stuff so far.

When you return to it, please announce it in a new post. I suspect we're the few Wikipedians on here.

My next wiki project: to create a self-printing footer template. Let's say tomorrow that SaidIt want's to open a merchandise store with T-shirts, coffee mugs, etc. or wants to host self-published books... I suspect they've either neglected or suppressed these DIY industries and folks need better access to finding more and better and centralized collected info on it. Plus, ideally, I'll want a store set up soon to support my series.

[–]wizzwizz4 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Read this and then be less hesitant to propose things in future. The second hardest part here is getting it to show up on Wikipedia; a browser add-on could probably do that, but people would have to install it. Making it seamless is the easy part, and making it decentralised is probably easier than making it centralised at this point (I'd have to check whether there's a JavaScript ActivityPub implementation currently existent).

The hardest part is figuring out where to display the annotations on the screen in order to keep them near the associated content but not on the text.

  1. Irrelevant; superseded by 3.
  2. The code is less important, and easier to make, than the community.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That's funny. I'm going to refuse to hesitate. If I don't know which ideas are good or not so all hesitation does is limit both the good and bad ideas. I am not the one with the good/bad filter.

Regarding the "hardest part" or "where to display the annotations" I recommend somehow logging a user directed anchor.

That anchor can be invisible, an icon, or feature "new highlighted text" - or my preference: insert a (citation-like) highlighted reference number with a corresponding highlighted reference number and new text content below, after that paragraph concludes (rather than as a citation at the end of the page), potentially creating a kind of running critique/dialogue punctuating paragraphs with alternative views and notes.

Highlighted colours could indicate different things such as: personal private note, public shared note, reference, refutation, other perspective, propaganda, counter-propaganda, liberal, centrist, conservative, trutherism, correct, incorrect, grey area, etc etc etc.

Perhaps it may be helpful in learning how, in the history of an article, when you look at the "Difference between revisions of "[Article name]", it displays the specific paragraphs that have been changed. Knowing how they do that may help lead to knowing how to place anchors, even if/when the text changes.

I'd rather have an add-on than a script. Also, a lot of folks don't trust JavaScript. Is there a better language? I'd rather have a JavaScript WikiNotate than nothing.

[–]wizzwizz4 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I recommend somehow logging a user directed anchor.

That's what I've tried to do at the moment, but MediaWiki doesn't output much context information. (There's no reason for it to; I wouldn't have written it to do so.) That means that any anchor's location information will be obliterated by anything but a minor edit.

with a corresponding highlighted reference number and new text content below,

That's the plan

after that paragraph concludes (rather than as a citation at the end of the page)

Ooh. I like that idea.

personal private note, public shared note, reference, refutation, other perspective, propaganda, counter-propaganda, liberal, centrist, conservative, trutherism, correct, incorrect, grey area, etc etc etc.

I was going to use "different sources of annotation" or make it user-customisable. That's a hard-to-implement feature, though.

Also, a lot of folks don't trust JavaScript. Is there a better language?

Sadly not; JavaScript's horrible to program in! (And they're right to distrust it.) But the add-on would be written in JavaScript too, so having a basic JavaScript bookmarklet version is a good start.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Also, just found this thing which may be a head start...

https://www.unwelcomeguests.net/WikipediaPlus

Robin is the founder of WikiSpooks and host of UnwelcomeGuests.

https://www.unwelcomeguests.net/Robin_Upton

https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Robin_Upton

[–]wizzwizz4 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

No dice; the extension's using the legacy API. (Much easier to program things on, but also much easier to program malware on because you've got access to EVERYTHING!)

Though it might help with the placing things on the screen. I'll look into it.

Edit: No dice; it's gratis and poorly-documented.

Edit 2: Why am I talking about dice so much?

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No dice, no worries. I just thought it might help. I don't even know what that app does. But it might be nice to adopt some of the functionality if they're good ideas.