Decentralizing SaidIt

submitted by JasonCarswell from infogalactic.com

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[–]magnora7 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (57 children)

I like the .net you added in the logo, nice. Mind if we use that?

As far as the decentralization, I think this is the current plan as far as I've thought of it:

Hard fork of ethereum (or a similar coin, able to store data). Integrate the saidit site code and data in to the blockchain. Then anyone who hosts the blockchain for saiditcoin, is hosting saidit.

Then IPFS hosts a static html page that points at the blockchain to load from it. Then a URL and DNS can point to that static page.

What do you think?

[–]wizzwizz4 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I don't think that's a good idea, because it'll use up a lot of computer power numbercrunching and a 51% attack would be pretty easy.

[–]magnora7 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Those are good points, especially about the 51% attack

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I don't think you understand blockchain technology is not necessarily a cryptocurrency.

Blockchain has it's pros and cons. You need the entire chain. Bitcoin has a blockchain with every transaction ever made and its around 100gb. That's not convenient on a phone.

The SaidIt database must be growing too.

Holochain (a TERRIBLE name is not a blockchain or crypto but more like a matrix, mesh, web, net, etc) doesn't have that blockchain problem. Not everyone needs a complete database. I'm quite sure there must be more pros and cons to it too.

[–]wizzwizz4 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That does sound like a good alternative... There are pros and cons to that too, but fewer cons than with an Ethereum hard fork.

[–]raven9 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You should look at blockchain sharding, a possible means of sharing the entire ledger between peers so no one needs to download the entire thing but you could have super peers, that do hold copies of the entire thing.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Link?

Like Holochain, apparently.

Not to be confused with sharting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbDcnUH6rOc

[–]raven9 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The blockchain tech crowd have been talking about sharding for a while here is a recent article about it.

www.computerworld.com/article/3336187/blockchain/sharding-what-it-is-and-why-so-many-blockchain-protocols-rely-on

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks. Feel free to repost in /s/DecentralizeAllThings or I will later.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for asking! Please feel free to use any SaidIt designs I do unless otherwise noted.

https://infogalactic.com/info/SaidIt#SaidIt_Gallery

My other work can be used freely to for non-profit purposes, like graphics on this site. But use them in a store and I expect a cut, even if it's not much (the principle of the thing (doesn't mean folks don't still rip me off)).

These few images are mostly from 15-25 years ago from my old site that I just upped to use on Steemit.

https://infogalactic.com/info/User:JasonCarswell/gallery

So I smashed out a few new headers:

Rough and crude. Nothing fancy nor refined. But big and bold and different and semi interesting.

Namecoin is about money and text - to pay for and name the domain on ZeroNet, etc. It may be simpler. I don't know much about it or Ethereum, other than E is VERY diverse. But it may be very complicated. I wouldn't even know how to begin forking it.

Go shorter: SAIDCOIN

There's one huge problem with blockchain which, I think it was, Holochain helps address.

Bitcoin requires you to either use a third party to host all blocks or you can download all 80gb blocks. On your phone, or anywhere for that matter, this is painful. All transactions - ever. It's a problem.

There needs to be a way to be functional without the entire set of blocks.

Also I wouldn't include the site code with the data. Parallel perhaps in tandem, but not mixed. Just as every app should be separated, every app and it's database seems to me should be separated - in blockchains or whatever.

Also, some things like ZeroNet, IPFS, WebTorrent, etc have browser addons so you need not necessarily have an entirely new application to have some functionality. WebTorrent Desktop is a a rare app that can do webtorrents AND bittorrents.

I think actually hosting ZeroNet, IPFS, and Holochain content might require a server app.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (46 children)

Also, do you have the SaidIt font?

[–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (45 children)

No I don't. It's an open-source font though. It was called "futurism" or something "future" related. I think if you google image search "future font" you'll probably find it. It's similar to the "centarui" font but that's not quite it

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks. You didn't install it in/for your graphics app?

[–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Someone made the graphics for us and donated it

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (42 children)

No luck.

You're sure it was open-source?

I've looked at hundreds of free futuristic fonts. My first impression over a month ago was that it looked familiar. Various fonts called "Centauri" came up empty too. None as "Centarui".

Any chance you'd be interested in custom rebranding? I'd be happy to do it for free. Also, I would absolutely insist that you don't go for ANY of my design proposals unless you're 100% happy with it. I'm not talking about an overhaul with something radically different. I'd just like to customize and improve what exists from a font into an actual logo and branding.

If you're adamantly against the idea I won't push further. If you're curious or unsure lemme know. This can remain between us or I can post them to surveys for feedback.

[–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (41 children)

If you want to make mock-up images, go for it

I'm not sure what the font name was, I looked for 20 mins. I think I could find it eventually if you really want it

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (40 children)

I would really like it for historical purposes for the IG article. Beyond that it depends on you...

1) Are you absolutely in love with it, just like it, or just think it's functional?

2) Would you like to maintain consistent familiarity, remain relatively similar, or consider new things?

3) Are there any ideas, concepts, emotions, etc you want it to express, that may or may not be there now? ie. Futuristic, modern, sleek, class, understated, to the point, unfrivolous, etc.

4) Would you be open to just a logo with nothing more - or branding and the seeds of marketing strategies?

(For reference, look at Discord's branding page : https://discordapp.com/branding Naturally SaidIt branding needs are different so you would not get all that and may get more details about other stuff. Further, we could develop some aspects together - like the colour pallet, etc. We could also develop branding goals in stages. For example, the logo today, the CSS and pallet tomorrow, and fancy banners down the road, then a web store and an animation campaign using the banner designs even further beyond.)

But before we go too nuts, let's just answer these questions first. If I've forgotten a good one/some I'll respond again like this. Your answers will guide my next moves. And yours. If you absolutely love the logo then you should find that font. I would rather not waste time and energy on trying to just copy it precisely. If it's not that important that I stick to it I can wing it by eye for some basis to diverge from. For example, to make it easier to read when small or from a distance, I would adjust the kerning, the space between letters, so that the very thin letter "I"s were more easily defined. And that's just if I was staying very close to the original. If you're open to it, I could sketch out a page of ideas that may or may not have hints of the original. The options are endless.

Lemme know. I aim to please.

[–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (39 children)

Well... let's just adjust one thing at a time. No reason to go so crazy with it. Just incremental improvements, that's how saidit was built. You make an improvement, we see if it works. Repeat.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (38 children)

Too late. Sort of. Not really. I just sketched some stuff. I need to either find and install a scanner or wait for a camera battery to charge.

Design can work incrementally too. It also helps if you have goals in mind. I'm going to try and help tease out a branding strategy.

I threw a lot at you. Of all of it, I'd like you to revisit #3 for an answer, if you don't mind. Maybe you don't have one. That's okay too.

[–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (37 children)

For #3 I don't care so much as I just want it to look modern and attractive to normal people. Doing paper sketches probably isn't the best way to approach this... don't you think starting in a digital art program would be better? I just don't want you to invest too much time in to this before we decide to include stuff or not. Small pieces is best

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (36 children)

Sketches are MUCH faster to get out some ideas. But they can also seem "sketchy" too and imprecise. It all depends. I'm fast and good so it's no prob. I already did them. Quickly.

Ironically, I just spent hours doing this which I'm not thrilled with - in Photoshop. Sometimes I like symmetry and maths and sometimes it should not apply. This is meh. Sometimes I love pixel art and sometimes it's meh. This one is meh. BUT it would be easy enough to add some geeky animation to make it a groovy pixel GIF. I used 3x3 pixels so it's 300% but I find pixel art looks better at 400%+.

One has the technical symmetry marks : https://infogalactic.com/info/File:SaidIt_Bold_Pixelized300%25_DotNet_FanArt_Technical_561x99.png

And the other is the cleaned up plain SaitIt.net bold logo adaptation : https://infogalactic.com/info/File:SaidIt_Bold_Pixelized300%25_DotNet_FanArt_561x99.png

The "A" is the worst casualty, and it needs to slide over 1 pixel towards the "I". I don't mind wasting time to find out what doesn't work. It's not terrible but it's not good either. It's meh.

My sketches have more promise.

All these images will be in the https://infogalactic.com/info/SaidIt gallery until it gets too much and will need it's own gallery page which will be linked from this main article. Like the table there will similarly be moved off the main article.

I forgot to also mention that if you want to be conservative with incremental improvements it's be ideal to gave that font.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

New version, smaller dot, more exclamatory, up in the SaidIt gallery.

A tiny tweak that makes a difference.

Sometimes you can't see something staring you in the face, but you know there's something not quite right...

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Approaches:

  • blockchain and etherium-like approach (and some non-blockchain storage) - people run bits of infrastructure or miners to improve overall saidit network health
  • mastodon/federated approach - people run independent instances which share content
  • it's all hype and will slow down the site - saidit offers an export of all public data so anyone can pop up a copy of the site and that's enough

Unsolved:

  • private messages
  • private subs
  • moderation / rule enforcement

Giving it a go:

[–]OldManCorley 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm a fan of federation and envision a future forum form where I can host /x/Norway@myserver.no and sync and federate with others who also want to host /x/Norway.

My favouritism might very well be due to a lot of experience with federation and none with blockchain.

But in any case, I believe it is a hype for now and populated federated or blockchain based social news aggregators are at least five years out if we look at comparable projects, the fediverse, matrix, Nextcloud etc.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Is Norse pron as good as Swede pron?

What is "matrix"?

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=nextcloud - interesting

What do you think of Holochain?

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=holochain

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A SaidIt user, /u/happysmash27 , is setting up a VPN which may have his mining pool integrated: https://minilaro.computer-pig.net/ Read more about it here: /s/SaidIt/comments/a08/saidit_is_not_currently_blocked_in_china/ It's all Greek to me.

I'm confused by your approaches. 1) Different people run different bits of infrastructure? 2) This makes sense sort of but I don't know how as I've never actually seen it. 3) Hype? Slow? Export public data?

I guess what would really help is to see an example with more than a YouTube talking head. I wanna see the app in action and have someone tell my how it's working and why it's revolutionary.

Reminds me of one thing I saw that you might be interested in. I think it was the bottom video on the right: https://infogalactic.com/info/InterPlanetary_File_System (This article is longer and not censored like the Wikipedia article, but I haven't updated it since April researching for the latest news, etc.) If it wasn't that video then it might have been a demo of the Orbit Chat a real-time web 3.0 chat app over IPFS.

I don't know what your problems are with the private messaging and subs are.

Have you reached out to Notabug? I forget if I asked that before or not.

Another one to watch is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everipedia It sounds promising but I also wonder if the deepstate is capturing it because it has potential to free many aspects and problems on Wikipedia. I am extremely hopeful but have my skepticism cocked and aimed directly at it. My first pass over it raised more specified questions than answers.

This SaidIt almost seems like a simplified wiki - in that I each comment is like an editable article - but without the history, etc. and some things are immutable or limited by permissions, etc. Or maybe they are entirely different beasts. All I know is MediaWiki is hella easy to set up with XAMPP.

Also, did you find the SaidIt font?

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Decentralizing SaidIt

This post is to discuss ideas, developments, updates, options, solutions, surveys, etc.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What are the hurdles to decentralization?

So far as I see it, as someone with very basic knowledge, currently many things need to be addressed - all affecting each other and every decision has cascading affects up and down the entire list of factors.

  • How to share the user interface - ie. webpages over the Internet, ZeroNet, IPFS, Fediverse, Holochain, Solid, IndieWeb, mesh networking?

  • How to share the SaidIt database, etc - ie. mutable and immutable parts on a blockchain via WebTorrent?

  • How to archive and share linked content should they be deleted elsewhere

  • How to have security, determine weaknesses, infiltration, corruption, bots, A.I., etc?

  • How to add secure transactions - ie. rewards/earnings, patronage support, server sustainability, web store, free market, savings for legal causes, etc?

  • What crypto currencies to embrace - ie. BitCoin, Etherium, Namecoin, Filecoin, Monero, Iota,

  • How to overlap with other apps - ie. chats, twits, deep-wikis, media, forums, social-media, authentic voting, etc?

  • What software and hardware server minimum needs might be - ie. FreeNAS, OpenZFS, FreeBSD, Linux Mint, B.A.T.M.A.N., Mycroft?

  • How to maintain informational order and social moderation with authentic democracy and no thought police

[–]wizzwizz4 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (38 children)

I don't see why SaidIt can't just implement an ActivityPub dialect. That ticks all of the boxes, apart from "proof of voting" (subs or whatever unit the decentralisation is in will be able to commit voting fraud) but the existing implementation doesn't do that either.

Plus, it won't have the downsides of blockchain (including, but not limited to, easy 51% attacks by rich people).

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

I don't recall how much I knew about PeerTube before coming to SaidIt just over a month ago. I know there are some sketchy looking Tubes out there. After being here I learned about PeerTube, ActivityPub, Mastodon, and the Fediverse - all wonderful things blazing new trails into Decentralized Web territory. Beyond that I know squat.

That said, I don't know if wizzwizz4's ideas is good or bad or what. But it made me consider something that I wonder if anyone here has really deeply profoundly considered...

I know you've put lots of blood sweat and tears into this open source SaidIt fork - but how married are you to it? Really.

Let's say that there was some other decentralized platform upon which you could build a SaidIt/Reddit type GUI with most of the original functionality with some new interface adjustments to get used to, etc. plus lots of potential for much more cross app pollination with a broader coder pool to lean on, etc etc etc - Are you prepared to give up this fork? Naturally some script might be needed to go through the entire history of SaidIt thus far to copy/paste every single sub, post, comment, vote and second vote thus far with their time stamps - to make a perfect content transition - and I'm guessing new phone apps would be called for.

/u/magnora7 , /u/d3rr - Have you really considered this?

Ooof. It's exciting and terrifying all at once, and I've only been here a month.

Redditers expect a certain format to be sure. Though more flexibility and options might be nice I'm not proposing we change what's on the menu but maybe the little kitchen over there gets closed down while that wing over there takes over as gourmet central where all the consumables are prepared, including the classic favourites.

That site map might come in handy. I don't even begin to know how you'd transition. Like a light switch on/off? Or with a SaidIt Jr that starts out with one sub, somehow embedded within SaidIt Sr, and you keep feeding junior until it just takes over?

To boldly go where no man has gone before...

Or have they?

This brings me to my second epiphany. Instead of thinking how can we port our SaidIt thingy onto this or that other platform - why don't we reach out to the platforms - ie. ActivityPub on the Fediverse, IPFS, and Holochain - to ask them to collaborate together to create some common ground so that a SaidIt "franchise" of GUIs in different locations can be built on each decentralized web platform and shared - as well as the core shared database and files and stuff - perhaps shared over different networks - ie. IPFS, Bitttorrent, WebTorrent, HTTPS, FTP, ZeroNet, etc.

I've watched some of the IPFS shows where you have a bunch of talking heads with their monthly meeting geeking out talking all Geek to me and it's fascinating. I keep hoping to learn through osmosis. I'm not saying you have to, but I think it'd be really kewl if you could record meetings like that as you reach out to make first contact, maybe starting with interviews with their PR guys or whatever - then posted them on your YouTube channel. This may also inspire them more to bridge back towards SaidIt and make that extra effort to help port us successfully.

Or maybe I'm just talkin out my ass.

[–]wizzwizz4 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

We can keep the existing Saidit API, like Mastodon has a Mastodon API. Then the app will still work. The backend database can also remain the same, probably; I haven't looked at it, so I can't tell for certain.

All that needs to happen is that Saidit implements an ActivityPub-like API for communication between different "sites", and a new row is introduced to the database mark certain content as non-canonical (i.e. doesn't "live" there) and a few other database adjustments to account for the user table not living in one place (which would all have to happen anyway for decentralisation) and presto! We've got ourselves a distributed Saidit. Apart from brief periods where the database schema changes and the site goes down (after LOTS of testing on a test site), there'd be no downtime. We ordinary users wouldn't even notice!

(ActivityPub, by the way, doesn't have a community behind it. Not really. That's like saying HTTP has a community behind it. Sure, we all use it, but that's not our community identity; it's just a way of sending information from Point A to Point B.)

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

Very interesting.

I take it ActivityPub has already worked out the kinks of having decentralized sources and negotiating the database build like negotiating building the blocks of a blockchain?

I didn't mean community in that sense. I mean that there are a lot more folks who can code HTML than know how to code for an open source Reddit fork. I'm guessing there may be more folks using ActivityPub and willing to share their expertise on it compared to SaidIt's two code-monkeys : magnora7 and d3rr.

[–]wizzwizz4 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

I take it ActivityPub has already worked out the kinks of having decentralized sources

Yup.

and negotiating the database build

It doesn't actually cover this; it's purely a communication protocol with objects (e.g. post, comment) and verbs (e.g. insightful, funny, create (post / reply)). You can make your own verbs, which Insightful and Funny would be.

I've just asked some people on Fosstodon whether they'd want to help… not that many people would see that post.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

And more emoticons/votes? I'd like to see more options. But I'm overwhelmed by the emoticons on YouTube and Discord - almost an identical set of endless crap.

Very kewl link. Ima gonna join.

Maybe post a link back to this discussion so they see what we're talking about and what Saidit is all about.

[–]wizzwizz4 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

I actually found Saidit from Fosstodon, interestingly enough.

(Note that Fosstodon is only one part of Mastodon.)

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Where? I'm sure /u/magnora7 would be interested to know that if you haven't shared that with him already.

I joined up. Any tips? Any favourites? Is it a big timesuck? I'm not sure I need another distraction right now. And yet I'm curious on many levels. I'm afraid to look/explore and be pulled in.

[–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That is cool we've gotten people from Mastodon!

[–]wizzwizz4 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

It's not a big timesuck; it's good for social mediaing with friends though!

Don't be too offended that I haven't followed you back, though; I don't want to fill up my feed with lots of stuff I don't care about. Only close friends' messages and post tags, or it would become a timesuck like Twitter.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

No worries. I don't know how much time I'll spend there. I don't do much social media stuff, the last two months excepted. I intend to be distracted for a little while longer before focusing on my own projects.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm certainly not married to the codebase, and maybe decentralizing would involve switching to a new code base. With a small team adopting something is way easier and quicker than writing something from scratch. I also like the federated/Activity Pub approach wizzwizz4 laid out, adding the federation bits to the existing code base.

If it takes us a year to start working on this, some new platforms will likely become available or mature enough to adopt.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't see why not either. This approach is straightforward and successfully in use elsewhere. Thanks for your commentary on this stuff.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

This much I know. Rich people won't be able to get 51% of a custom blockchain unless it's offered to them. Even if they hire all the mining farms in China, they still won't get it if that's not how it's designed.

[–]wizzwizz4 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

For a big currency like Bitcoin, they won't. For a hard fork of Ethereum? Easy.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

To clarify, you said "blockchain" which can be used for a lot of non-currency purposes.

If you're talking strictly about currencies, than I'd generally agree. It might be possible to develop currencies that are less easy to buy into. I don't trust Steemit but they do have some weird things going on good and bad with their three tolken systems - in part to stop a bank run. The best thing about them and Filecoin are that you can earn them.

I don't know how practical a closed system might be but it's something to think about.

[–]wizzwizz4 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Blockchains with POW are all susceptible to 51% attacks, no matter whether they're currency-based.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I suppose folks like Steemit manage their proof of work problems by not opening up their proof of work process to submission, much less publishing them publicly, besides on their website apparently somehow.

The nice thing about it is that the work is there and could potentially be reversed in an archival situation, unlike a currency where some transactions might not be.

If you don't openly offer access to just anyone then that would decrease the risks. Figuring out the system for the circle of trust is a whole other can of worms.

[–]wizzwizz4 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Doesn't that defeat the whole point of decentralisation? There's still a central authority controlling content in your case.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Depends. You still have moderators and admins for decentralized things right?

If one person is controlling something on a thousand machines - is that decentralized or not? Yes it's on several boxes but no if you mean it's got a gatekeeper.

One domain name, ie. SaidIt.net may be hosted by one server or many. Maybe folks who prove their moxy earn the right to co-host. This might keep the bots and trolls and impatient infiltrators at bay.

[–]wizzwizz4 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

One domain name, i.e. SaidIt.net may be hosted by one server or many.

But there's only one entity in charge of it. One entity that says who stays, who goes, who's in that group...

If many subs are on different domains (you can access all subs through all domains with the accessor's authentication, but their "home" locations are on different domains) like Mastodon does it, that's decentralised enough whilst still allowing moderation by the sub owners.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Now I'm a little confused.

[–]go1dfish 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Oh hai

https://notabug.io/t/SaidIt.SaidIt/comments/df5fe7cbec21108a731e1493669019902168f002/decentralizing-saidit

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Huh?

[–]go1dfish 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

All of saidit's public content is currently being mirrored to notabug as a form of federation.

Saidit will be running a notabug peer soon as well.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

How big is it? I've never gotten an answer.

[–]go1dfish 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

How big is what? notabug? I don't track traffic or log ips and the traffic is kinda mixed up with ceddit since it's hosted on snew.notabug.io

The saidit database? seems like less than 2 gigs total but don't have an exact number.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I meant the SaidIt import. I just had absolutely no idea, other than WikiSpooks is about 5gb, including media. Now I have a ballpark. Thanks for the info.

It's almost hard to picture so much power that can fit on a thumbdrive.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Our total backup is 7gb, mostly thumbnail images. 2 or 3gb for the actual data sounds about right.

[–]go1dfish 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think it may be closer to 4gb, nab just ran out of space (well not really has to do with a misconfiguration of lmdb) in part due to the comment ingest.

That's why it's down at the moment while I resolve the issue heh.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Cool, neat to know.

Even with the thumbnails that's not too bad.

Are they mostly post icons? Do comments generate any thumbs?

Would it be very slow to not have thumbnails and just make on the fly as necessary? (Maybe for mirror sites?)

Are there a lot of duplicate thumbnails (ie. blanks), or a lot of s-links?

Is it possible to guestimate how large a library of local images would be? (ie. If they were copied local (faster) but linked offsite to their source.) And or for audio/video media (ie. Copied to a dedicated PeerTube, but linked offsite to their source.)

I don't recall ever seeing just audio. Wouldn't be bad to have standard "MP3" logo, "Opus" logo, etc. images within a playback window. This would make the audio/video media presentation uniform.