all 81 comments

[–]magnora7 14 insightful - 7 fun14 insightful - 6 fun15 insightful - 7 fun -  (6 children)

Two points come to mind:

  1. Just because someone is well-intentioned doesn't mean they're not breaking any rules.

  2. Jesus also said not to cast pearls before swine, did he not? Meaning one should not waste energy and time on people who are not even listening or interested. This is why you don't talk to shills.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

  1. Intentions aren't at issue. Actions are. I can provide the chat records of the times the following users were banned by Carswell while Carswell was not provoked: usehername, ShalomeEveryone (though he's not here in IRC), weegsspeegs, skank (Ed), Jackalope, Mittens, Theizukoguy and others. I kept the records when I made the initial complaints about the preemptive banning by Carswell. It's been killing the chat. /u/beingPoisoned has since set the chron to 6 hour periods, to lessen the impact. I can send you notes on that as well.

  2. Jesus said a log of things that can be taken out of context. His main message in all of his comments was:

Do to others as you would have them do to you. (Luke 6.31)

If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also. (Luke 6.29)

Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. From anyone who takes away your coat do not withold even your shirt. Give to everyone who begs from you; and it anyone takes away your goods, do not ask for them again. (Luke 6.27-30)

Put your sword back in its place; for all those who take the sword will parish by the sword. (Matthew 26.52)

This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friends. (John 15.12-13)

Why do you see the speck in your neighbor's eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye? (Luke 6.41-42)

You willknow the truth, and the truth will make you free. (John 8.32)

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. (Matthew 7.6)

I also recomment Marcus Borg's Jesus and Buddha: the parallel sayings (Ulysses Press, 1997)

[–]JasonCarswell 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Do to others as you would have them do to you. (Luke 6.31)

Then how about you quit lying?

You willknow the truth, and the truth will make you free. (John 8.32)

Not if you willfully ignore it to support authoritarian evils.

Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you.

So quit your bitching, shut the fuck up, and leave SaidIt.

[–]LarrySwinger2[S] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Just because someone is well-intentioned doesn't mean they're not breaking any rules.

I'm talking about cases where there's nothing unacceptable to point to, just individual cases that make you suspicious about their intentions. People have been muted over borderline cases and at least once while they were participating normally, simply because they were perceived as shills based on earlier exchanges.

Jesus also said not to cast pearls before swine, did he not? Meaning one should not waste energy and time on people who are not even listening or interested. This is why you don't talk to shills.

I would say that trying to convince someone of something when it's futile is casting pearls before swine. Answering questions or letting them speak their mind (without participating yourself) aren't. Note that Jesus interacted with tax collectors, who were the most reviled of all.

[–]grassfed 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

^

[–]JasonCarswell 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

[–]HibikiBlack 9 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 4 fun -  (10 children)

I think people have an ethical duty to call people out on their crimes and it is the only method we have to maybe stop them. I'm sure I've managed to make some of them reconsider their actions by posting anti-shill content.

But either way, there's no reason to treat scum like them with kindness. Out of the active users of r/conspiracy that have been persecuted by TopMindsofReddit I only know of me and P_L_C making it through, out of which I'm the only one who is still active while P_L_C is always semi-active either way...

Aleister, RecoveringGrace, Flytape, RMFN, polkadotgirl are just some of the many who have been taken out by Phoenix and his group. I wouldn't be surprised if socks was one of his many alts. He leads a group of shills but for some reason he is usually the one using dozens of alts. There's no reason why we should be overly empathetic more than neccesary. They are scum and should be treated as such.

However, with the recent cases, Jason should really limit the repression. It's exactly what socks wants to make the site look bad.

[–]JasonCarswell 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (9 children)

I think people have an ethical duty to call people out on their crimes and it is the only method we have to maybe stop them. I'm sure I've managed to make some of them reconsider their actions by posting anti-shill content.

But either way, there's no reason to treat scum like them with kindness.

There's no reason why we should be overly empathetic more than necessary. They are scum and should be treated as such.

However, with the recent cases, Jason should really limit the repression. It's exactly what socks wants to make the site look bad.

WRONG.

This is hyperbolic fRRRREEEEEEEEspeech overreactions that you've bought into.

I don't make SaidIt look bad. Bad faith disruptors like socks make SaidIt look bad and his whiny REEEE team only helps him with overreactions to any disciplines whatsoever. socks is an enemy of SaidIt. He was banned and for some utterly retarded reason it was only temporary. He's still the fucking enemy within. We all know it. Me occasionally banning him for <12 hours in chat will hardly slow his prolific spray of bullshit.

No one of consequence gives a shit about how good or bad SaidIt looks.

Hypocrisy:

  • You don't give a shit if SaidIt looks bad welcoming bad faith shills and disruptors.
  • You give a shit if SaidIt looks bad taking out the trash.

Let's focus on quality over quantity.

[–]HibikiBlack 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

We all know socks is a bad faith user but we should be wise if we want to oppose him. You are falling in his game if you act in a frenzy. We have the advantage since everyone has had a bad encounter with him.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

You are falling in his game if you act in a frenzy.

Find me an instance of this.

[–]Jackalope 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

What happened with Kathryn last night was pretty fucked up, I don't want to see that happen again. We need to use more discretion than what was exercised last night.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

What happened with Kathryn last night was pretty fucked up

Jumba and Ed make 99% of the new accounts we see in chat, and "Kathryn" was passing off pictures of a TikToker as their own.

Additionally the person claimed to be bipolar. I don't know if you've ever dealt with that. I feel like if any of us owe a karmic debt to minister to the sick of mind, I have paid my bill times over. Having someone you care about regularly do 180 degree mood changes, to go from sweet to vile without warning. It hurts my own well-being.

I don't say that to be mean to anyone. But I feel being wary was/is justified due to the circumstances. Although I'll admit Ed doesn't keep his charades going this long. Where is Jumba tho?

[–]JasonCarswell 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

What happened with Kathryn last night was pretty fucked up, I don't want to see that happen again.

1) For clarity: I did NOT ban her. Indirectly conflating my past actions with last night's exceptionally unique situation is problematic bordering on misinfo smearing.

2) She came in as a first time new alias.

3) Ed is the actual problem in this situation, though he may not have actually been there.

4) The story may have all been bullshit or even Ed masterfully manipulating us. I don't think Ed is capable of that. And she seemed legit to me. This is not the first time I've seen people reach out like this. We didn't make her fucked up, nor did we make Ed et alia fucked up. The situation was NOT fucked up, some individuals were.

We need to use more discretion than what was exercised last night.

I disagree. I think we handled it excellently. We corrected course.

Also, I won't blame he-who-banned in the slightest, nor will I if it were to happen again.

I blame Ed and the other shit disturbers.

[–]Jackalope 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

1) For clarity: I did NOT ban her. Indirectly conflating my past actions with last night's exceptionally unique situation is problematic bordering on misinfo smearing.

I didn't accuse you of doing it, I'm not here to cast blame.

2) She came in as a first time new alias.

If this is the welcome new users are going to get, I don't think I want to be a part of this community

I disagree. I think we handled it excellently. We corrected course.

We did, but I don't feel good about how that happened, what if she hadn't reached back out to us via PM ? This is no way to treat people that come here. Other people shouldn't have to pay for Ed's actions

[–]JasonCarswell 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

I didn't accuse you of doing it, I'm not here to cast blame.

I didn't say you were. I'm just clarifying for readers.

If this is the welcome new users are going to get, I don't think I want to be a part of this community

You're missing the fucking point: We are over-defensive because we refuse to properly deal with Ed and other problems.

We did, but I don't feel good about how that happened, what if she hadn't reached back out to us via PM ? This is no way to treat people that come here. Other people shouldn't have to pay for Ed's actions

We aren't responsible for her mental health, or Ed's, or their actions or inactions. She reached out for attention. Real folks in that position don't do that. We did our best.

I agree. Ed and other problems need to be dealt with properly. Take action: Take out the trash instead of bitching about "censorship".

[–]Jackalope 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

You're missing the fucking point: We are over-defensive because we refuse to properly deal with Ed and other problems.

If I thought we could ban Ed to save the new users, I would be cool with this. Seems like the greater good. However, I worry that even if we 'deal' with Ed, he will still create millions of accounts to ban evade, and we will be even more over-defensive about this.

IMO We need some clear guidelines about spam and harassment, with 12 hour bans given, and consistent enforcemnt, rather than guessing games and pre-emptive bans

[–]JasonCarswell 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

However, I worry that even if we 'deal' with Ed, he will still create millions of accounts to ban evade, and we will be even more over-defensive about this.

He's doing it anyway.

Further, chat is not top priority, never has been. It's only been this active recently.

We might ban abusers in SaidIt with M7's help. Perhaps if we petition him.

IMO We need some clear guidelines about spam and harassment,

Start the first drafts.

with 12 hour bans given, and consistent enforcemnt, rather than guessing games and pre-emptive bans

Good luck with that.

[–]yabbit 7 insightful - 6 fun7 insightful - 5 fun8 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

What is it with the christcucks on this forum? they're almost as annoying as SJWs

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

It's kind of disturbing to label everyone who disagrees with you as a "shill" in the first place. That has the same vibration as a senile boomer veteran in a nursing home who suspects his nurse is a communist secret agent.

I feel like a lot of people on this site are extremely paranoid and are overestimating the extent to which others are trying to manipulate them. Apparently every divergent opinion makes someone a fed, or a shill, or what ever else - but at the same time, they get mad if others label them based on THEIR beliefs.

The powers that be probably don't give a fuck what people are saying on here. Because even if you're all correct about the democratic pedo cabal or whatever it is you believe, no one would listen to you anyway.

Even the comment I'm typing right now will probably result in multiple users blocking me as they determine that I am a "shill." It's some seriously paranoid schizo shit to think that way.

Are there shills/bots/agents on all social media platforms including this one? Probably. But also, there are a lot of every day people who hold beliefs such as "Joe Biden is a wonderful president," or "the vaccine is 100% effective." Just because they're incorrect, doesn't mean they are manipulating - they just might actually think that.

[–]LarrySwinger2[S] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I put a lot of users under the same umbrella. By that, I meant they have all been perceived as shills or whatever, and got banned for that reason. I didn't mean to imply that they all actually are shills. That was my whole point: authentic people get caught in the crossfire this way. To ensure that this doesn't happen, I propose remaining friendly even when you're convinced they're a shill (so long as they remain reasonable in their communication). The distinction should be irrelevant because we should treat everyone in the same way.

[–]Fireslinger 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Great post, this is something that's bothered me as well. IMO, the word 'shill' is just another form of control language, similar to 'safe and effective' The purpose is to divide truth seeking communities, and that's exactly what it's doing.

I've been trying harder to treat everyone with kindness. To say these are tough times is an understatement. 'Shills' are people too... maybe misguided, lacking a fine tuned perspective / understanding, but people, just like us.

It's not worth fighting them though, much healthier to continue on your own path of understanding.

[–]send_nasty_stuff 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

Trolls and shills are real. If you don't think so try moderating an online community of any size or controversy. You're fucked either way. If you go after them you 'divide the community' and if you don't then the shill wins and divides the community. Do you see the issue here? The only option is wise moderation that removes the shills and leaves the good faith debaters. That's the best we can do.

'Shills' are people too... maybe misguided, lacking a fine tuned perspective / understanding, but people, just like us

I don't think you understand what a shill is. Here's an example of pro Israel shill.

https://altcensored.com/watch?v=gqekMUZttvU&playlist=ACen3xjAlpvmZZ2AnO6km7pa

These people are literally paid (often out of military budgets) to sow division.

*text version if you prefer reading

https://www.unz.com/article/how-israel-and-its-partisans-work-to-censor-the-internet/

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

[–]jet199 4 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 5 fun -  (3 children)

What was AmericanMuskrat banned for shilling? Big tea? The cat lobby?

[–]LarrySwinger2[S] 2 insightful - 7 fun2 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 7 fun -  (1 child)

Tits.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

It was over the ban wave that got BillyBob and EvilNick and I don't even know how many of us in all. There was the thing about the Iron Left sending me a faked screen shot, which apparently showed I was an enemy agent or something, hence the lovely ban message on s/Tits.

[–]Chipit 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

You cannot extend tolerance to those who abuse that tolerance to advocate for the abolition of tolerance.

That's the problem with free speech sites like this. On leftist sites, they ban people at the drop of a hat. But when free speech gets involved, leftists and their NGO foundations that fund social media influencers to disrupt free speech sites can run wild. This is why we can't extend the principle of tolerance to them. If we do, they'll abuse that tolerance to eliminate tolerance. It's a paradox, and we're facing it every day.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (29 children)

The only practical solution I can think of is to agree on alternate channels to chat in when someone is sitting on Operator status and abusing it.

I have made my case about u/Socks till I'm blue in the face with u/JasonCarswell. He doesn't agree. I see no benefit to continue to rehash those conversations.

I don't know what more I can do. Saidit is a rudderless ship.

[–]JasonCarswell 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

socks IS the ENEMY within. You acknowledge this. Yet you want to play nice with him. This is info war, part of the global class war. Stop being a pussy, man up, and fight back.

If you must chat with him, do it away from #all and #subscribed so that new folks don't fall for his bullshit.

Choose YOUR favourite non-front-page sub to chat in and everyone can follow, including me.

It's not complicated to protect our free-thinking truth-seeking forum.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

He is your ideological enemy, I think he's just wrong about a lot of shit and vice versa. Regardless, I enjoy talking to him. This is a forum, discussion is the whole point. Not to cultivate a group of like minded individuals. People who agree with each other just tend to say "I agree." It's boring. By challenging your ideas, making you defend them, you create something for all of us to read and flesh out your argument.

My same argument it has ever been.

so that new folks don't fall for his bullshit.

So they see a dead chat? Ed and the band of mentally unstable saidit misfits spamming the shit out of it isn't something most reasonable people would want to participate in either. But Socks doesn't do either of those things.

[–]JasonCarswell 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

He is your ideological enemy,

He's not my enemy. Authoritarians, corporate shills, and liars, are enemies to all of humanity.

I think he's just wrong about a lot of shit and vice versa. Regardless, I enjoy talking to him. This is a forum, discussion is the whole point. Not to cultivate a group of like minded individuals. People who agree with each other just tend to say "I agree." It's boring. By challenging your ideas, making you defend them, you create something for all of us to read and flesh out your argument.

Don't fucking spin this. It's NOT about disagreeing with him.

It's that he is a BAD FAITH LIAR and TIMESUCK SEALION here only to disrupt SaidIt. Every time he says he will look at your corrective references he's lying only to come back spouting his old propaganda lies. He's perpetually evasive using all the standard bullshit tricks of infiltrators. And he's obscenely prolific infecting all areas of SaidIt.

SOCKS IS THE ENEMY WITHIN.

And you are helping him.

So they see a dead chat? Ed and the band of mentally unstable saidit misfits spamming the shit out of it isn't something most reasonable people would want to participate in either.

So why give a REEEEEEE fuck about temp bans?

But Socks doesn't do either of those things.

SOCKS IS THE ENEMY WITHIN.

And you are helping him.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

Thanks. I'll note that the reason I focus on the 'subscribed' channel, and focus on - say 10 subs - at Saidit, is because these are the only places where there can be a critical mass of engagement. Needs to be at least 10 active users at a time in a channel or a sub for it to be potentially interesting. And because each Saiditor is rather different - at least mentally (if not politically) - that batch of 10+ or so users can develop a conversation that might be intersting. Going to different chat channels or subs is boring and results in a conversation with only 2 or 3 users, if that. So - banning only 2 or 3 active users in a chat channel can make it rather dull.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (24 children)

that batch of 10+ or so users can develop a conversation that might be intersting.

IFIFY:
that batch of 10+ or so users can develop a conversation that might be interesting to infiltrate, irritate, aggravate, manipulate, divide, distract, subvert, timesuck, lie to, and bamboozle.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

Not on Saidit, "because each Saiditor is rather different - at least mentally (if not politically)". The only like-minded Saiditors are in /s/debatealtright . Everyone else has slightly different views, but are united by a similar interest in right-wing news media, and sticking it to the libs, or whatever. But many are also slightly moderate right-wingers, or haven't given it much thought. My point is that everyone here is mentally different, and you'll not see a consistent support by one group for one kind of Chat comment or another. The Chat is open in that manner. It's a gateway drug to the rest of the activities on Saidit. It gets different people involved who would normally not bother. None of the angry voices in the Chat are threatening to the discourse on the chat, because one can focus on other discourses. Even if you're told that you stole $1 million bucks from someone, as happens, you can move on to the next issue. (also a response to /u/Mittens )

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

I'm not really interested in you and Jason's Neverending Story. Didn't like the weird fucking movie with the dragon, and this version sucks even harder.

Jason is a shut in, who lives across his mom he won't see, he can't get laid, he doesn't work, he writes outlines and creates empty subs. Never finishes anything. Goes to one protest and thinks he's suddenly better than everyone.

Why do you care what he thinks. Jason is the timesuck he warns everyone about.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Good points - but I'm not on Saidit because I find it interesting. I'm on Saidit because of the discussions with users with a range of different mental states, and to see why some of them - like Carswell - believe right-wing propaganda news media, while also thinking that it's the only Truth, and the only response to authoritarian democrary (whereas the opposite is true, that anti-democratic propaganda is pushed by authoritarians). This mental diversity, to which Carswell is a contributor, is what makes Saidit what it is; hence my interest in discussions of Saidit, rather than my interest in the many right-wing propaganda posts, which I normally don't comment on. Much of the time Saidit is not that interesting, but something that brings me back is the occasional argument. I always say that Saidit has potential, and indeed could be purchased and turned into a very active site. The general direction of Reddit alternative websites is itself an interesting conversation. See for example https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditAlternatives/comments/te4opm/did_everybody_realize_the_idea_of_reddit/ But I also appreciate that this is not your interest, and I shouldn't bother you about it. The second reason to re-visit Saidit is because one gets to know people here, and it can be addictive to engage them (sometimes). This is one reason I wanted the 'subscribed' channel not to ban users. We'll sooon get that holodet recipe from Gravi....

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

So much bullshit, I need a bigger bulldozer, be right back...

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

with a range of different mental states

So we're all crazy so that's why we believe "propaganda."...

Jason would be authoritarian liberal in the political compass, not right at all.

right-wing propaganda news media,

It's all propaganda one way or another, the right doesn't have a monopoly. The people who say these are artificial divisions meant to keep us from dealing with real issues may be onto something. Look at the left bullshit news, look at the right bullshit news, look at foreign bullshit news with their own foreign agenda (Agent Socks), and the truth is probably in the middle somewhere.

indeed could be purchased and turned into a very active site

Maybe, but that would destroy the whole reason you're here. There's one Muskrat to ~122 users here on an average day, ~177 on a good day. If you add 100,000 users, you do not get some percentage of extra Muskrats. You have one Muskrat out if 100,122 users now. A diluted value.

And it's not just me, but all the unique voices here. We don't get bolstered by adding people, we get drowned out and/or end up banned by the new masses joining, electronic gentrification.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

You're spouting lies and misinfo. I'm a voluntaryist. Have been since before I came to SaidIt. Get your shit straight and dump the left-right bullshit. You're better than this.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Didn't read. Fuck off Jason, you spent all your good will. It's very telling you thought your little Canadian protest elevated you above the rest of us. I have no respect for you. You're a loser beneath my consideration.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

It's very telling you thought your little Canadian protest elevated you above the rest of us.

Where are you even getting any of this from?

Has socks been whispering earworms into your brain?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Bitch boy

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Bitch boy

That's what I was thinking about all the whiners in chat.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

There's a misunderstanding here, I think.

So we're all crazy so that's why we believe "propaganda."...

I refer to different points of view

Jason would be authoritarian liberal in the political compass, not right at all.

I note that - regardless of what you or think he is - he is supporting right-wing propaganda

It's all propaganda one way or another

I am referring to the right-wing, authoritarian propaganda. Left wing approaches favor democracies and right-wing approaches favor authoritarianism. There is no "authoritarian liberal" concept in statecraft that is anti-democratic.

the right doesn't have a monopoly.

It has indeed - controlling the Senate for many years, and in some cases, controlling the house. That's a legislative monopoly.

The people who say these are artificial divisions meant to keep us from dealing with real issues may be onto something.

They are facts, not artificial divisions.

Look at the left bullshit news, look at the right bullshit news, look at foreign bullshit news with their own foreign agenda (Agent Socks), and the truth is probably in the middle somewhere.

Yes, though this oversimplifies the problems

Maybe, but that would destroy the whole reason you're here. There's one Muskrat to ~122 users here on an average day, ~177 on a good day. If you add 100,000 users, you do not get some percentage of extra Muskrats. You have one Muskrat out if 100,122 users now. A diluted value.

No - Saidit would be more interesting and engaging if it had more users. Currently, there is not much value to dilute.

And it's not just me, but all the unique voices here. We don't get bolstered by adding people, we get drowned out and/or end up banned by the new masses joining, electronic gentrification.

Interesting point and term, but look at the users who run the place. 'Electronic/social gentrification' would result from them leaving, which is doubtful. By contrast - anyone who disagrees with right-wing propaganda on Saidit is abused and eventually leaves (I can remind you of the usernames).

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

No - Saidit would be more interesting and engaging if it had more users. Currently, there is not much value to dilute.

It's just be another reddit. You never seen a small sub ruined by reddit popularity?

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I've seen a lot of mod abuse on Reddit over the years, but would argue that there is perhaps a sweet spot where a sub can be a good size and not have abusive mods. Depends on the subject. /r/Politics has been severely limited by having too many rules, and thus it's potential to address politics appropriatley, with a variety of media and users, has made it an MSM page. Saidit is so much better than this because of the lack of restrictions. So, Politics is partially ruined because it has had difficulty dealing with bad content. This would support your argument about the problems with larger subs. That said, Saidit still needs more users, and shouldn't be in danger of reaching 8 million subscribers, 31k of which are online right now. Sorry that's a gross comparison.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

he is supporting right-wing propaganda

LIAR!

Everything that you don't believe in is not simply right-wing.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Jason is a shut in, who lives across his mom he won't see, he can't get laid, he doesn't work, he writes outlines and creates empty subs. Never finishes anything. Goes to one protest and thinks he's suddenly better than everyone.

It's a shame you need to stoop to lying, AmericanMuskrat. If I'm a shut in then how do you explain my photos, activities, and reports about what I'm up to. Today I had two meetings about two prepper communities, took care of my friend that may be dying of cancer, and made a trip to the store. That's not a shut in.

My Mom chose to consider my warnings about tyranny rising depressing before COVID and it's her choice to live in fear. I cant' change her.

I can get laid, and have turned down offers, but I'm picky and looking for more.

You don't know what I do or work on.

I do start too many things that don't get finished, but I also do complete much. I do create many subs with hopes of filling them with good stuff, but I'm afraid I don't have enough time to save the world and fill the subs.

Many protests, many rallies, many meetings, many groups, many networks, and still I don't think I'm better than everyone. I wonder why you think you are in a position to judge me?

Why do you care what he thinks.

Indeed. Why do you care, and why are you being a baby bitch about it? This is not a good look for you.

Jason is the timesuck he warns everyone about.

This may be true, but you're the first to say so. Feel free to take a poll.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Again didn't read. Loser.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Again didn't read. Loser.

Not very creative.

[–]grassfed 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

Be careful from actuallynot too

[–]JasonCarswell 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (4 children)

Yes, indeed. It seems /u/ActuallyNot moved on. Shame the other shills and trolls won't.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

This is your problem - Carswell - assuming that everyone should think exactly like you, or move on. Fuck that.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

This is your problem - Carswell - assuming that everyone should think exactly like you, or move on. Fuck that.

Again, making false statements. I don't assume or need everyone to mirror me. However, I demand authenticity and you are a bad faith bullshitter. Fuck you.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This does not address my point or your earlier point. The point is that you want to remove people you don't agree with. You always have wanted to do this. You do NOT believe in free speech.

EDIT: and now you've banned me in the Chat once again - for no reason - and after my first comment in the Chat this period :

21:48 @JasonCarswell sets mode +b socks!@

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

The point is that you want to remove people you don't agree with.

LIAR!

I've only ever been after BAD FAITH DISRUPTORS like you.

because there is absolutely nothing redeemable about you:

Yeah? Well, you know, that's just like uh, your opinion, man.

Let's do a popularity poll and see what folks think of us.

[–]JasonCarswell 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Why not treat shills with kindness?

Yes. Kill them with kindness. If that doesn't work then fuck them.

(The blanket term "shill" is problematic, as discussed elsewhere within this OP's comment section.)

Or at least spank the childish idiots enough to teach them to behave. Then they'll behave even if you aren't watching (like a panopticon). Do NOT just turn the other cheek. Shutting down disruptors to our free-thinking truth-seeking community is defensive. Taking out the trash is not censorship. It's simple: Don't be an asstroll, don't be a dick, AND don't be a pussy whining about a <12 hour ban on chat because you're dragging the discussion downward (against site rules), sealioning, timesucking, lying, and/or spamming.

(/u/magnora7, ex-d3rr, and admins: Why aren't the rules in the FAQ rules anymore? This is beyond stupid. Aggregate all critical information for clarity, simplicity, and ease of use. It couldn't be a simpler URL to the FAQ and rules: https://SaidIt.net/wiki/ It's almost like you're trying to subvert your own site.)

They have HUNDREDS of subs available to chat. We must maintain a modicum of decorum on SaidIt's front page #all and #Subscribed. The disruptors can pick one/some of their own subs to chat in and/or we can all select one/some for more rowdy crap if you must (ie. /s/FreeSpeech, /s/SaidItCommunity, /s/Sex, /s/Whatever, etc.). Personally, I think these disruptors should be banned entirely, like all other trash.

THEY ARE THE ENEMY WITHIN.

FUCK BAD FAITH LIARS AND DISRUPTORS!

Even if they claim they can't recognize it.

This is a GLOBAL CLASS WAR, and they are the mindless minions that serve the ruling class, paid or not, intentionally harming humanity or not.

We know what is coming and THEY help manufacture it via misinformation and fifth-generation warfare:

C EVIL GEMS

Censorship - to shut down communications and truth. This includes disruption, distraction, demotivation, and signal to noise.

Economic collapse - to steal our investments, sustenance, and way of life of The West.

Violence - the brainwashed masses believe their mafia monopoly is "legitimate".

Inflation - engineered to steal the value of hard work and savings.

Lawfare - they make new laws to justify their bullshit.

Global totalitarianism - full spectrum dominance and exploitation with a monopoly on violence, economics, energy, environment, and power.

Energy disruption - fuel and electricity will be denied.

Mass starvation - countless global food crises from intentionally broken infrastructure.

Supply chain disruption - goods, services, and fundamentals denied.

THIS IS WAR. If you let their avalanche of bullshit slide here, you'll likely be a pussy in real life too where the consequences will fall out much harder. At least have some fucking balls online behind your anonymous aliases where there are no ramifications other than whining pussies throwing keyboard tantrums of feckless name-calling thus proving they can't rationally engage in proper discourse.

As you know, people have been muted from the IRC recently for doing nothing wrong except being perceived as shills.

FALSE

Some people like /u/socks, /u/ShalomEveryone, and /u/usehername are proven authoritarian liars, corporate media supporters, and big pharma shills - and they serve the /s/RulingClass' global depopulation /s/Agenda21_Agenda2030.

Some people, like Ed and his many aliases, and /u/jumba_jukiba aka weegspeegs, are intentional disruptors introducing chaotic noise to reduce the quality of the chat, which was already hit or miss.

If they are [temporarily muted], this only allows them to start commotion over it.

This is a fair point, but is easily refuted with several other points.

1) They aim to make mountains out of molehills. A <12hour ban is nothing like a lifetime ban and real censorship.

2) When you entertain their whiny bullshit you give credence to their /s/Victimhood claims that originated from their own behaviour. Fuck that. Don't yield an inch to the bitches or they'll claim miles.

3) Make them bring their grievances into SaidIt posts with citations. I encourage everyone to archive #all and #subscribed to verify they are not quoting out of context. That is assuming they have a valid claim - or we can simply ignore their bullshit posts.

4) Develop SaidIt Chat rules and guidelines within our community in lieu of limited arbitrary confusing dictates handed down from /u/magnora7. Here's a discussion started on this idea.

5) Authoritarians, left-right, commies, and Nazis... suck it up buttercup. Don't like my "leadership"? Then go fuck yourselves. That's what living is like under the various authoritarian forms of mafia governments that you support. This timesuck drama bullshit is so trivial in the global scheme of things, this may be my last word on chats for a while - but it won't be my last actions.

6) Anarchism/Voluntaryism means "no rulers", not "no rules". Whether we have rules handed down or collectively develop some, the fact remains that chat is still a part of SaidIt under SaidIt rules.

7) SaidIt is NOT a free speech site where chaos may reign. Founders /u/magnora7 and /u/d3rr have stated this countless times, regardless of the misinformation perpetually put out there (including one of my years old articles I would update if it mattered). For free speech visit https://Talk.lol and/or /s/FreedIt / https://FreedIt.com

8) Don't like this free service? Go make your own.

It's also an ad hominem, and for all you know, their intentions are good.

Only if you or they are sloppy and unclear.

That's why it's important to give people repeated chances.

Thus <12 hour bans.

Whereas being friendly to an actual adversary is exactly what they don't want. They aim to derail, but instead, we're integrating them and there's nothing left for them to do.

BULLSHIT

This takes time, energy, and focus. If you let them make you a sap they will sap everything you have while the world burns and you've done nothing about it.

I wasn't even going to bother with this discussion, but recent events made me see the importance. I want to take a public stance. I disagree with the recent banning / muting of /u/socks and a few others in the IRC, and the apparent plan to do that repeatedly for all perceived adversaries.

Then you are enabling them to wage war on us in our own community space. You should know better.

Recent events were a rare anomaly, and importantly we addressed it properly (whether it was legit or not). We can still deal with the problems as severely as necessary while remaining flexible.

[Jesus:] “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.”

I say:

Have compassion for all of humanity, including enemies.

Don't waste energy hating individuals or groups, but hate all evil actions.

Be skeptical and question all forms of authority (government, police, media, experts, corporations, military, religion, education, healthcare, science, technology, etc etc etc).

Give all individuals the benefit of the doubt until they prove themselves.

Don't eat shit and don't waste resources (time, energy, focus, motivation, good will, wealth, etc.).

Defend yourself, your communities, humanity, and liberty.

Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven.

Fuck that.

I won't forgive and won't forget, if I'm able. I will not dwell on bullshit either. I will move past it and NOT forget. Let bygones be bygones. But if it comes up again I will bring it up again and deal with it more sternly.

This includes dealing with the intentional disruptors, proven authoritarian liars, corporate media supporters, and big pharma shills that serve the ruling class' global depopulation agenda.

Also, IIRC, Jesus also said, "Don't be a passive bitch pussy, defend thyself, and fight for freedom."

" Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God. "

              ~ Benjamin Franklin

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Resistance+to+tyranny+is+obedience+to+God.

[–]iamonlyoneman 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

The commotion only is useful if people care about it. People don't care if shills get banned. Fuck shills.

Quoting the Jesus when you don't even believe in him, out of context no less, is pretty weak tea.

[–]LarrySwinger2[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I believe he existed. I included those quotes to inspire people to take on an attitude of forgiveness. You don't need to be a Christian to do that. Many of Jesus's sermons are universal in nature.

[–]iamonlyoneman 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

"I'm God. Believe in me or go to literallyHell" is not universal. Accept all of what he said or accept none of it. Anything less is just lame.

People who believe all of what he said are not inspired by this sort of thing, by the way.

[–]LarrySwinger2[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I said that many of his sermons are universal, not that all of them are. Also, I'm simply quoting a public domain document that just happens to be considered scripture by Christians. The document stands on its own and I'm free to quote or take inspiration from individual passages of it.

[–]zyxzevn 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Kindness works in personal contact, in the real world. On the internet we do not see person-to-person. Instead we see words that can be interpreted by totally different people to mean different things. If they are even reading.

[–]LarrySwinger2[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Relaying a message from /u/socks:

BTW - others banned from IRC occasionally are usehername, ShalomeEveryone (though he's not here in IRC), weegsspeegs, skank (Ed), Jackalope, and others, depending on the drama

These are the people I'm talking about. (Although I didn't know Jackalope gets banned too.)

[–]JasonCarswell 5 insightful - 6 fun5 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 6 fun -  (3 children)

Fuck socks.

Don't entertain him, don't be a voice for him, don't feed the asstroll.

You started this lame post which is bad enough, but don't serve them and perpetuate their bullshit-drama disruption campaign.

Focus man.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I didn't ban anyone; you did. It's worth addressing, so that the people you've banned can continue to have a voice in one interesting aspect of Saidit - so that you won't kill that aspect of Saidit for other users. You'll of course continue your dumb obsessions, but others shouldn't be excluded from Saidit because of them. You fucked up. Cut it out.

[–]JasonCarswell 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

I didn't ban anyone; you did. It's worth addressing, so that the people you've banned can continue to have a voice in one interesting aspect of Saidit - so that you won't kill that aspect of Saidit for other users. You'll of course continue your dumb obsessions, but others shouldn't be excluded from Saidit because of them. You fucked up. Cut it out.

Your concern troll shtick doesn't fly with me.

I'll chat-ban you again shill, but now I'm making it a mission to do it every chance I get. And even then, non of this bullshit drama for a <6 hour ban serves anything but your timesuck agenda.

You said you blocked me. You're a liar, again.

Go fuck yourself.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Of course - more ad hominem from you. Continue enjoying your abuses of the POD. You have no credibility.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oops - I forgot to mention that Mittens and Theizukoguy were also banned

[–]LarrySwinger2[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

By the way, I don't know the details regarding everyone in this list. Obviously weegsspeegs is a different animal. Others, such as socks and usehername, seem well-intentioned. It can be argued that a repeated ban is warranted, since permanent bans are impossible. But still: don't ban people based on a mere suspicion that they're an alt of a banned user. Distinguish between banning someone based on trolling, suspicion, and a different set of values. And only do the former.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

I don't know the details regarding everyone in this list.

Yet you've opined on it.

But still: don't ban people based on a mere suspicion that they're an alt of a banned user.

Some "mere suspicions" are certainties in others' minds (I'm not just taking about last night's anomaly). Who will arbitrate that? Fuck this whining. A <12 hour ban is a nothing burger. Get over it.

There's nothing well-intentioned about bad faith socks.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat, and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink. For in so doing, you will heap burning coals on his head, and the LORD will reward you.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Food + Water ≠ Burning Coals + Head

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Have you ever learned about NDEs? Some people are so ashamed when they review their lives they prefer hell.

Finding out the way you mistreated the very people who treated you with love or kindness is embarrassing.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

NDE

Near-Death Experiences?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yes.

[–]Canbot 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

As you know, people have been muted from the IRC recently for doing nothing wrong

I don't think that is true.

[–]BravoVictor 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I generally agree. I only block people when it becomes clear they're not acting in good faith and just want to be a rude douchebag or troll. And even, I try to give them some slack, because hey, I haven't always been mister politeness myself.

e.g. If I give a polite thoughtful response to, say, the Ukraine war, citing my sources, and the only follow-up responses I get are, "Dur shutup you stupid Russian bot!", then yeah, they're done.

No one needs that noise, and no amount of politeness or "love" will help them see the light. They're NPCs brainwashed to hate the "other", so any engagement is a waste of time. But, to your point, you also don't have to reciprocate their hatred.