all 26 comments

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

OPTION 5 : Don't touch nuffin.

OPTION 5 : If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

OPTION 5 : My trust will break the more you mess with powers you can't comprehend.

[–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

This is basically me and d3rr's personal motto

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I listed various takes on the same result to try to cover the different reasons for the same action.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

COMMENTS ?

[–]d3rr 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

My vote, trying to put my just a user hat back on. Nice survey, I think most or all site decisions should get made this way.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

/u/d3rr/ You may want to change your vote. I swapped the contents of my comment options. Whether it remains anonymous(ish) depends if people comment or not.

I guess I just rigged the election.

[–]d3rr 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

This is where I say that Batman quote about surviving long enough to become the enemy or something but I won't.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

You just did. But I don't get it. Am I the enemy or are you? Or are we switching? Or something.

I laughed out loud when you copy/pasted and did a strikethrough, thereby nullifying my feeble attempt to re-anonymize the vote.

And because I realized I rigged the election - openly.

Also FYI... You commented under an option, but you didn't vote it.

[–]d3rr 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

You are the enemy Mr. Election rigger. I'll revote it. Too bad there's not many people here, maybe because of Jesus day, I think usually you would have got a decent response to a post like this.

I wish there was a built in voting mechanism, I don't know if upvoting or commenting is a better way to signify a vote. Probably upvoting.

Edit: Shit I get it. I'll re-anonymize it.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Glad you get it, regarding the "anonymous(ish)" votes versus open commented votes. I don't mind either way, though on a skeptic site I wonder how many folks could be swayed by a community leader's opinion, compared to other herd mentality sites.

I can't vote on my own comments so you're literally the only vote in the 7 hours on all 6 options. Meanwhile your recent "Just to add a bit of nuance" post 2 hours ago has 3 insightful votes.

You've stated that you're afraid of losing peoples trust. That's a valid concern, but I don't think it would be lost by cleaning up subs and tinkering with the database as long as you posted your progress, perhaps in excessive detail, with reasoned explanations and backup precautions just in case. You could even propose the changes before you do them to get feedback and/or consensus, rather than do (dramatic) changes and expect everyone to suck it the way corporations do it. It's easier to do it and ask permission later. But if you ask first you're earning points and perhaps folks won't want it so you might save yourself the time/energy.

On one hand I want to remain humble and say this vote is silly and my little post for proper noun CAPITALS doesn't matter. But on the other hand, as in the previous paragraph, messing with the process is messing with the system but it can potentially be done democratically and openly. Sometimes a paradigm shift is a good freeing thing, on many levels. So because of this importance, and because of this strange season, that's why I suggested well after the new years as the closing date. I'm not into numbers but they lined up in a couple weird ways too. If you think another date is better that's fine but ultimately it will get buried in time unless it gets pinned by an admin.

I think this may be the most important post I ever make on SaidIt for this site and its community. If people already trust enough to participate on this site and don't mind maintenance and tinkering then you may be free to improve it, quietly or openly, as you see fit, if/when they vote that trust is earned by not doing evil. If the skeptics are skeptical it may be another story. Or maybe you're correct not to meddle. It seems to me the only way to know for sure... is to pin this post. Pinned at the top is obnoxious for 3 weeks. A full page shows 25 posts. Maybe you can pin it at #13 in the middle or #25 at the bottom. Regular folks can learn to ignore it and occasional users will stumble on it. Pinning it is a big ask, but I'm not asking for me - I'm asking for the future of SaidIt and it's community, and how they/we trust the admins.

Also, if for whatever reason(s) you wanted to scrap this post altogether or rework and repost something similar in your own words to serve your own reasons, I don't mind that either. I'm after results/answers and democracy, not recognition. If there are better ways I'm open. Or feel free to suggest something for me to change on here. I'll do it.

[–]d3rr 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I can't vote on my own comments

This is on our todo list, it's all about regretting a comment and un-insightfullying yourself

Well you make a lot of great points. Since this is not a republic or a federation, I officially vote for mob rule by actual users. If everyone wants to edit some shit lets do it.

I like your pinning idea. What is crappy is that a sub can only have 2 pins. We're trying to get a home/all/subscribed sidebar of links going to feature posts, it'll be even better than a pin here.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't need to vote on my own comments. There are a couple comments I could hunt down and un-vote if I cared to, but it hadn't occurred to me before.

One of the common things the guard dogs on Wikipedia say is "this is not a democracy".

I'll have to look into the pinning on subs. I like the idea of sidebar link highlighting select content.

I'm almost tempted to learn whatever language this is all coded in, but I really have to try to focus on my animation project. And I want to embrace all FLOSS software for this open project. This means dropping Photoshop for GIMP and Illustrator for Inkscape. My next box (whenever I can afford it) will definitely be Mint Linux. And my biggest hurdle will be learning Blender 3D to replace all the other packages I actually know. Also, I'm afraid whatever open source compositing software is out there may not be too great. I hope I'm wrong, or else I'll just work around and with it the way we did in the old days.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Semi-related. Should you...

A) Cast your vote with a comment behind an option, perhaps intentionally heaving your popular influence on something?

or

B) Leave the votes anonymous relegating (and moving) your comment under "COMMENTS ?" (and I would do likewise)?

Further... How should I state this in the "VOTING OUTLINE" and/or should this "public / anonymous-ish" issue be voted on (thus voting on voting in stages)? Or does it just become a tangle of endless options?

And how might one enforce/organize this? Maybe the mods have some control?

And and, how can I pin the "VOTING OUTLINE" at the top? Maybe /u/magnora7 as mod can? And/or is this post worth pinning anywhere on SaidIt so it won't be lost in time?

Lastly, is 3 weeks appropriate for such a matter? The CAPITALization may be trivial, but really, "tinkering" is not a trivial matter and seems like it could be a paradigm change for this site, from a technical and possibly ethical aspect.

[–]magnora7 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Or does it just become a tangle of endless options?

Yes. I recommend taking a look at the code (open source link at the bottom) and if you can implement the features you're talking about and they work well, we'd be happy to bring that in to the main code.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I wasn't referring to code at this part. I was referring to the democratic process.

For example, before we vote on "tinkering" should we first have a vote on how we vote on it?

Would folks prefer A) a user's comment behind an option be a vote, or B) no one comment and simply "upvote/like" the option they prefer to keep it anonymous(ish)?

This additional pre-vote vote/discussion may be obsessive anal over-organized and extremely ineffective democracy to the point of pointlessness.

Or maybe folks want an open and/or anonymous pre-vote/discussion about how the actual vote should take place.

[–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This additional pre-vote vote/discussion may be obsessive anal over-organized and extremely ineffective democracy to the point of pointlessness.

Yeah that's my feeling on it. One of saidit's big strengths is how streamlined we are and how quickly we can improve and change the site. I'm not keen on creating a bunch of bureaucracy to get bogged down in. But I am interested to hear what people think.

[–]Froglich 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

No! No no no no!!

You're a little turd!

You go to hell, and you die!!!

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Your very name makes me cringe.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

VOTING OUTLINE

Because the SaidIt admins want to maintain your valued trust, they cautiously don't want to "tinker" in the guts of the software or databases for fear that some may accuse them of malevolence or censorship.

Personally, I think that's a big leap. How do we know they aren't already tinkering or malevolent? How could they prove anything anyway, true or false. The proof is in the pudding, and thus far their pudding has been free of censorship or malevolence. When that proof changes the situation may change. That's my 2 cents.

Ultimately it comes down to the users. Where does your trust lay and how is it earned? Do you care if they openly tinker. They can post details if/as they evolve, should they choose to do so.

Do you care that the "canada" sub and others don't have CAPITALS?

Being the busy holiday season, I propose this vote be closed 2019-01-09 in 3 weeks.

PLEASE VOTE FOR ONE OF THE OPTIONS

[–]d3rr 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

"tinker" in the guts of the software or databases

Just to add a bit of nuance, we're great with tinkering with the software and we have a bunch. What you are proposing here is tinkering with user submitted (database) data, specifically sub/subreddit names.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes. For now there are several general options with various tinkering intensities. Further details about the actual processes can be discussed here or on other posts or surveys. Folks might even request procedure details before and/or after proposed tinkering. This survey may be the start of a broader conversation or it may conclude it.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

OPTION 1 : I don't care bout nuffin.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

OPTION 2 : I don't mind their tinkering, my trust is proven by their actions.

OPTION 2 : I'll get upset when there's something legit to get upset about.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

OPTION 3 : Please keep the subs organized in general.

OPTION 3 : They can fix the spelling and delete old empty illogical subs as they see fit.

OPTION 3 : Maybe they can even move posts around to their proper places.

OPTION 3 : As long as they let us know about it.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

OPTION 4 : ONLY fix the proper noun CAPITALS on the subs only. Beyond that is a slippery slope.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

OPTION 6 : Other. (Feel free to comment to this.)