Rip u/d3rr

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[–]magnora7 11 insightful - 8 fun11 insightful - 7 fun12 insightful - 8 fun -  (40 children)

Okay...

So apparently, judging by what I'm seeing, he has just walked away from saidit entirely. Because day before yesterday /u/AXXA changed the rules, and I changed them back, and d3rr had some sort of meltdown about being admin (which was entirely unrelated to the rule change issue) and just left I guess... pretty rash but I understand. He did content admin work for the last 6 months and it was wearing on him, but I had done it for the 2.5 years prior. I thought d3rr was doing a good job moderating the content on saidit, even better than me, honestly.

He was wanting to clarify the rules, so we were building a rule clarification page. This was yesterday.

I talked about opening a new site with higher quality rules, I talked about finding new admins.

I guess he realized he could just walk away, so he did. Funny he did it right after I revealed the reason I had to take a break 6 months ago, which was the admin duties being overwhelming.

Not a great move by d3rr here. Especially deleting the account seems counterproductive. I wish he had used his words and we could've developed a solution instead of making a sudden exit, but that's his choice I guess.

I enjoyed working with him and we've done some great things, and I thought our conversations about the rule clarifications were going in a good way, and now this. But there's always been a bit of tension between us, especially the last couple years, and I'm not sure why, and I try hard to overcome that and but it can be difficult.

So I guess I'm back to running this show again. I still don't know why he deleted his account other than to make some sort of "statement" about how done he is with it. But apparently not only admining it, but also participating at all. I hope he comes back some day. But if he doesn't I guess that's okay too, luckily everything is registered by me, so this won't affect the website being up.

Sucks. I guess I'm running this site again now. D3rr if you see this, I understand and forgive you, it's not a big deal, I don't know why we couldn't work together on this when saidit is currently growing. It hurts, but if it needed to happen then it needed to happen. I walked away too so I can't blame him too much. But I didn't delete my damn account...

His main thing is he was just tired of doing the admin duties 85% by himself (which is what I did for 2.5 years so I totally understand) but we were working toward a solution of rule clarification to help other admins be trained properly to take some workload off of him. But I guess he just decided he was sick of it, and he's done. Deleting the account was an overraction though, but whatever. Saidit will live on.

/u/AXXA do you have any insight on this event?

[–]AXXA 12 insightful - 6 fun12 insightful - 5 fun13 insightful - 6 fun -  (4 children)

I will let d3rr speak for himself but maybe saying you forgive him is not a very good approach.

I didn't change any rules. You were tagged from the very beginning of a discussion to clarify not change the rules to make them easier for everybody to understand. I have retired as admin due to you being demanding to me and not valuing my input.

[–]magnora7 8 insightful - 6 fun8 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 6 fun -  (3 children)

To be fair, you tagged me in a discussion about it and within 24 hours made the change, and worded it differently than what you and d3rr agreed on, and I veto'd it, which I think is within my right. I said we can make a "rule clarification page" to help clarify the rules, and you said you'd be willing to work with me and d3rr to do that. And now you step down?

Thanks for the help the last 6 months, but I honestly don't understand why you are leaving. Sorry for the problems, I wish we were able to work together.

[–]JasonCarswell 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

To be fair, you tagged me in a discussion about it and within 24 hours made the change,

I completely agree that he was too hasty in making that post without hearing back from you. I was surprised by it but I also understand that one of my comments could have been seen as encouraging him to do so.

and worded it differently than what you and d3rr agreed on,

They invited me to add it to the FAQ and reword it to be shorter, as clear as possible, and to avoid encouraging name-calling. They could have easily done it themselves. On the FAQ we could also see it and each improve it as we liked until a consensus was reached - then hope you liked it. The announcement seemed premature.

_we can make a "rule clarification page" to help clarify the rules,

Retarded. Why not just clarify the rules?

And now you step down?

I don't like it, don't endorse it, but I understand why AXXA is also bailing. Maybe you'll take notice and do some self-examination.

Sorry for the problems, I wish we were able to work together.

This is on YOU. Open it up. FOTPACH. Bottom up. /s/SaidItCommunity

[–]iamonlyoneman 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Seems like an ideal time to write rules the way it seems best to you and then open up for new admins to enforce the rules you want enforced on your own site. But what do I know.

[–]magnora7 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Great minds think alike. Check out this thread: https://saidit.net/s/SaidIt/comments/8w8i/anyone_want_to_help_be_content_admin_for_saidit/

And this thread: https://saidit.net/s/SaidIt/comments/8wao/saidit_content_admin_rules_clarification_page/

[–]Foidblaster9000 12 insightful - 5 fun12 insightful - 4 fun13 insightful - 5 fun -  (7 children)

You did it for 2.5 years, but there's a huge difference between you doing it because it's your baby, and him possibly even just feeling trapped into it by feelings of obligation. Maybe he wanted to interact with other users here in a way that wasn't molded by acting as admin in your stead. You probably should have asked about the resentment and tension though.

[–]magnora7 8 insightful - 6 fun8 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 6 fun -  (6 children)

It's our baby. He and I coded it together.

I wasn't changing anything, I thought things were going well. I was out of his hair. He was tired of doing admin work, but I didn't realize he was so burned out he was going to delete his account.

[–]Foidblaster9000 12 insightful - 5 fun12 insightful - 4 fun13 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

Have you paid attention to how he's talked about his role within saidit before? It read more like weary obligation even 6 months ago than any kind of excitement on observation. He might have personal problems going on in his own life recently that made him not want to do the role, or maybe something else got to him. You guys should probably talk about it, since that's a pretty big deal when you're responsible for something as time consuming as taking care of this place is. If you have contacts for him outside of here, I'd recommend giving that a go.

[–]magnora7 10 insightful - 6 fun10 insightful - 5 fun11 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

I wasn't excited about having to be saidit content admin either, but I did it for 2.5 years even during the IP2 stuff. It sucks. No one is excited about it. It's like picking up dog poop. You do it if you want to own a dog. You aren't excited about it, but it just has to be done if you want the dog. Content administration is just something that is necessary for this website to exist. He was very good and strong to step up to the role for the last 6 months in my absence and I honestly thought he was doing a great job, and I think the saidit community agrees.

I'm sure he has stuff going on in his life right now, we all do, this is not a fun time in history. I wish him the best. I just sent him a message thanking him on another platform, good idea. He's a good guy. I'm just kind of in shock a little bit.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 4 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

I did it for 2.5 years even during the IP2 stuff.

Shout out to IP2.

[–]AXXA 10 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

If you really believe burn out is what caused two admins to simultaneously quit then I would urge you to spend some serious time rethinking it. Meanwhile I am confident that Saidit will continue to thrive with you at the helm once again.

[–]magnora7 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

D3rr quit from burnout, and that's what he said. Yesterday you said you wanted to help, now you don't want to help. That's fine, but I don't fully understand it. I wanted to have conversations and develop the "rules clarification page" which is exactly what you wanted, and I wanted to use your own clarifications, but now you decide it's no good and are walking away. I don't get it. But you're of course free to do so, and I am very thankful for your help over the last 6 months. If you want to help be a content admin again, you are welcome to.

[–]AXXA 6 insightful - 6 fun6 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

👌🏿

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

I appreciate this is between you two and I should stay out of it, but if I may offer my 2 cents: I don't think d3rr has done anything wrong by deleting his account, even if I see your point that it was not necessary. My point is that the personal time and committment he's given is important here is such that the addition of mods some time ago and the reduction of spam revived the site, so that it's relatively healthy today. He also added AXXA as admin, which has helped. So if I look at this as an outsider - somewhat - the committment by d3rr and his approaches have developed Saidit significantly, so the problem here is - it seems - only a major lack of communication, whereby we would want to appreciate his approaches much more. (Disclaimer: I know d3rr is definitely no fan of me, but I wanted to say this anyway.)

[–]magnora7 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

I agree communication was the problem. I don't think d3rr has done anything wrong either, I'm just shocked he'd decide to do that. I am grateful for all his help building this website over the years and I think we have something special here.

I just know when I walked away for a while, it felt like everyone was mad at me. Because a lot of people were. I just want him to know I'm not mad or anything.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

I see. I don't know of anyone who was mad at you, but that's my perspective. I think users want Saidit to grow and thus appreciate your work (here and elsewhere) and admin and mod work by others. My view has been that it seems to be difficult to keep people at Saidit from time to time, and an open discussion about that issue might help periodically.

[–]magnora7 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

I want saidit to grow too, as does d3rr, but to do that we are going to need help doing the work necessary to keep this site running. I just made a post about finding new content admins: https://saidit.net/s/SaidIt/comments/8w8i/anyone_want_to_help_be_content_admin_for_saidit/

It is difficult to keep users on saidit, but I think that's equally true of other anonymous social media websites. There's nothing unique to saidit in that regard, although I do think low-quality content does sometimes drive users away, which is why I was thinking of opening another website too that has tighter rules to encourage higher-quality content which may attract more people.

[–]raven9 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

The content on this platform is good. Content is not your problem, the problem is lack of feedback. I tried to tell you and d3rr this several times. One of the things that keeps people coming back to other platforms are push notifications that tell them when people replied to their posts and comments. The Saidit Android app used to do that but no one bothered to update it when it stopped workin. You know I told d3rr about this. He just did not give a fuck about it. I think you need to look for team members who care about improving, updating and maintaining the platform and kick to the curb drama queens and authoritarian power trolls that just want admin rights so they can manipulate discussions and censor people.

[–]magnora7 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

We would need another developer in order to develop the app more. d3rr and I are basically trying to do 100 things at once so we just don't have free time to devote to the app, unfortunately. This community is very lucky d3rr has done as much as he has.

[–]raven9 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Well I think you are missing the point entirely.

If you cant keep your userbase coming back then you end up with a dead site. When everyone has notifications on their smart phone pulling them back into facebook, instagram, reddit, discord etc then saidit has to join the fray to compete for their users time or fall by the wayside. That is why this should be a top priority issue for the survival of this site.

[–]magnora7 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You make a good point, but right now having the site culture not split in half is my top priority, with the sudden shift in admin structure. Maybe in a month or two I can get to it, I agree it would be helpful to grow saidit and you do indeed bring up a good point.

[–]JasonCarswell 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

> and I should stay out of it, but

Always ass kissing and meddling obliviously in bad faith.

You'd see this if you hadn't blocked me.

[–]fschmidt 8 insightful - 6 fun8 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 6 fun -  (6 children)

Does anyone besides d3rr understand the code base?

[–]magnora7 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I do, I helped program it and set it up originally. But d3rr understands it better. But no one understands it fully because it's over 1M lines of code.

[–]magnora7 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

Thankfully d3rr just told me in a message he'll still be doing technical work for saidit from time to time, so he's still going to help keep saidit online. So d3rr is still very much on team saidit, but no longer as a content administrator. He's basically resuming his backend/technical role for saidit that he used to have. And I'll just be taking over the content admin duties. So everything worked out okay, more or less.

[–]fschmidt 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Where should I post technical questions? To https://old.reddit.com/r/saiditnet/ ?

I just got SaidIt running on my Mac in Docker. I will play with it next week.

[–]magnora7 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Nice, glad you got the docker working. Maybe in /s/saidit, not sure. But I wouldn't go back to reddit, saidit will continue to be online. I suppose you could post technical questions on the github for the docker, if d3rr made a page for it. Or just on the saidit github page, there's an issues tracker

[–]AXXA 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

How long did it take you to get it running? Was it straightforward? Do you have any advice for other people that want to get it running?

[–]fschmidt 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I had help from my sysadmin, so it was fast. If anyone wants instructions for a Mac, I can post it.

[–]raven9 8 insightful - 5 fun8 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

I read the conversation about the rules I did not understand the point about changing or making a new rule about name calling when name calling is already clearly illustrated as a no-no in the saidit pyramid of debate.

https://saidit.net/static/PyramidDebate.jpg

It seems to me all they need to do is encourage users to use the report button if they see offensive name calling and then as moderators they can decide whether to delete the comment or not. If no one complains about it just leave it.

[–]magnora7 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I agree name-calling could be merged with ad hominem in the pyramid. It was part of the original Grahams Hierarchy of Debate. But I agree upon further reflection the 'name calling' category is too subjective and meaningless.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Personally, I would say it takes some gall to FORGIVE him. He stuck by this site through thick and thin, saved it from utter destruction while YOU left without a word for months on end. HE did for YOUR site what YOU yourself couldn't do.

No, huge thanks and a bottle of champagne are in order.

[–]magnora7 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

I agree, a huge thanks and a bottle of champagne is in order for d3rr. He's a great man who has done some great work. I was just shocked he left, and wanted him to know I'm not mad that he left, is all.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Believe you me dude, I am shocked too, but in retrospect, not surprised. Many a time, I asked myself "Why is he doing all this? Is he being paid top dollar? What's he getting out of this? What would it take, for ME for example, to dedicate that much to a site?" and I couldn't come up with an answer.

[–]magnora7 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

I think he's doing it because he believes in free speech and in this saidit project, just like me. It's a labor of love, out of morality and obligation to the improvement of humanity, as well as an expression of programming skill. D3rr is a talented guy who believes in free speech, and he donated his time and effort and skill and emotions for years on end to help everyone, and we should be super grateful. He is a genuinely good person, that's why I believe he did it.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Makes sense, thanks for that explanation.

[–]JasonCarswell 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

^

[–]HibikiBlack 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

I'm really sorry to hear this. I mean It's like me, you and d3rr are one of the few guys from the old days left. Hearing him doing something as drastic as deleting his account puts me down. Just keep up the good work Mag. I'll keep trying hard myself.

[–]magnora7 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah it's a downer, but he's doing alright and he needs a break and that's totally understandable. He might come back some day and post again, who knows.

[–]JasonCarswell 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Because day before yesterday /u/AXXA changed the rules, and I changed them back,

FALSE.

and d3rr had some sort of meltdown about being admin

This response is yet more dismissive pejorative crap. You have repeatedly insulted both AXXA and d3rr and don't even fucking realize it because you're obliviously daft and are more likely authentically obtuse rather than malicious like socks.

You prance around here (and Reddit) like SaidIt is/was your accomplishment alone. Not only has d3rr put in the hard work, so have the countless users here. SaidIt is a community effort and your Napoleon complex has always smelled toxic regardless of those cult of personality types that worship you. On top of this insult is how you abandoned the helm of SaidIt for whatever reasons, for d3rr to single-handedly save it, and then months later you eventually ambled back to sit on the throne and bark your bullshit like nothing had happened.

The insults were compounded on the fact that you've apparently completely took for granted all the hard work of your admins - and then nullified their efforts to streamline their critical work because your arbitrary rules are untenable.

I thought d3rr was doing a good job moderating the content on saidit, even better than me, honestly.

This is a fact. He's FOTPACH - fair, open, transparent, peaceful, accountable, consistent, honest. Aim for that and you'll do better. "Try again, fail again, fail better." ~ Samuel Beckett.

He was wanting to clarify the rules, so we were building a rule clarification page. This was yesterday.

You don't need a separate page. What was there was just fine.

I talked about opening a new site with higher quality rules, I talked about finding new admins.

You haven't even got a handle on this one. Why not develop these quality rules in a sub here openly to see if there's even any positive response and potential for this. When FreedIt launches the fray can go there, and maybe you can simply elevate SaidIt. This mysterious guru speaking from on high shit is tiresome.

I guess he realized he could just walk away, so he did. Funny he did it right after I revealed the reason I had to take a break 6 months ago, which was the admin duties being overwhelming.

NONE of this is new, nor surprising. He's been saying this for months. Your disrespect was the straw that slaughtered your heavy lifting pack mule.

Not a great move by d3rr here.

Kettle black.

Especially deleting the account seems counterproductive.

I agree with you on this. IMO, it's lame and annoying and passive-aggressive.

I wish he had used his words and we could've developed a solution instead of making a sudden exit, but that's his choice I guess.

He did use his words. You never listen - to him or others who are trying to help you. He's not a confrontational guy. I'm not either but I won't swallow bullshit and I try not to resort to passive aggressive tactics.

Further, he was never after the power and thus never needed to be possessive with it. Neither have I. On the other hand, you seem to have an ingrained paranoia about sharing the management process and authority of power for some reason as if you think it weakens or subverts you to be fair and open up.

But there's always been a bit of tension between us, especially the last couple years, and I'm not sure why,

I think you'd be surprised at the results if you did a survey to see how many people felt welcomed by you when they first arrived only to find in a few weeks or months they were shunned with the friendship betrayed by an ongoing long-lasting sourness that would not fade as typically minor disagreements would. You've turned many of your friends into "enemies" when they really aren't. Worse, this bullshit spreads when you spread it, like how you convinced TAM that I was a problem, then you mysteriously left, leaving TAM as admin. That chaos was from your seeds. This is the opposite of being magnanimous.

Your mysterious aloof ruler persona carries with it the extra weight of being the authority who should be trusted, despite you often being very wrong, but if you threw off that cloak and were just one of the guys, the common folks, you'd not only actually earn more credibility as an equal and respect among this fray (with many anti-authoritarians), but you could also openly discuss and improve your rules and critical thoughts.

I still don't know why he deleted his account other than to make some sort of "statement" about how done he is with it. But apparently not only admining it, but also participating at all.

I'm not impressed with the passive aggressive drastic measures for drama. Nor that he wouldn't ban socks and ShalomEveryone. Those are choices his to make and will be my only criticisms of d3rr you'll ever hear from me today.

I do know that he never signed up to the be the enforcer, the rule-interpreter, or benevolent overlord of SaidIt. I also know that instead of being SaidIt admin he is more personally fulfilled and his coding and online platform skill sets are better utilized and more effective fighting the tyranny of the global class wars in all forms. He's wanted this shift for a long time.

I understand and forgive you, it's not a big deal,

This is lame on too many levels. I hope I'm misreading your meaning and/or that you could have worded things much much better.

I don't have time now to explain. I have a US/Canada border blockade to attend in less than an hour to unfurl a 200+ foot big yellow banner, "We stand strong, we stand united, we stand for constitutional freedom."

But I didn't delete my damn account...

This is actually extremely lame on d3rr's part, IMO. I still respect his choice.

His main thing is he was just tired of doing the admin duties 85% by himself (which is what I did for 2.5 years so I totally understand)

His loyalty was absolutely astonishing. He followed your rules and intentions to his best abilities, no matter how absurd he thought them. This included your extremely limited social media management system that is in terrible need of improvement - and has been for years. Feel free to visit /s/Cassy for some ideas for how to delegate and build a trusted-team that can absorb much of the burden.

Further, as I've said countless times, add a "donate" button prominently to the top of the page (banner or sidebox) to get the funds you need to not be a coward afraid of losing Patreons so you can change the rules as needed, hire some admins, and/or propose some code-bounties.

but we were working toward a solution of rule clarification

Wake the fuck up. You were forced into this because THEY took the initiative out of desperation only because they were exasperated dealing with your stagnant system.

Saidit will live on.

I hope so.

You only discredit yourself if you keep on ignoring the ideas from OUR community.