all 95 comments

[–]package 20 insightful - 5 fun20 insightful - 4 fun21 insightful - 5 fun -  (30 children)

Faggy mod drama was the beginning of the end for ruqqus. Don't go down the same road. If anyone in power is suggesting to change some rule or add/remove some feature and another admin doesn't agree, or if the community doesn't agree or hasn't even been told about it, STOP IMMEDIATELY AND THROW WHATEVER IT IS YOU WERE PLANNING IN THE TRASH AND NEVER BRING IT UP AGAIN. Don't let the cancer of drama derail the site.

[–]magnora7 15 insightful - 5 fun15 insightful - 4 fun16 insightful - 5 fun -  (29 children)

I'm trying very hard not to go down the same road, because I 100% agree that it was the beginning of the end. As was changing the ruqqus site rules over and over.

I have been trying to work with them to come up with amicable solutions that would work for everyone, but instead they're both walking. So I guess I'll pick up the pieces now. But I'm not going to be all dramatic about it, like it seems many people want me to be. I'm sad and a bit shocked, but I'll get over it and saidit will continue.

STOP IMMEDIATELY AND THROW WHATEVER IT IS YOU WERE PLANNING IN THE TRASH AND NEVER BRING IT UP AGAIN

Yeah that's exactly what I did, and exactly what apparently made both AXXA and d3rr quit doing content administration, apparently. I "wasn't listening" because I didn't want the rules to change... Damned if you do, damned if you don't... That's why this drama is so hard to avoid. All I can do is avoid participating in it myself.

On the flip side, I'm running the content admin myself now apparently, so there's nothing left to split. Saidit is still standing, and I'm here now. Saidit goes on.

[–]JasonCarswell 8 insightful - 7 fun8 insightful - 6 fun9 insightful - 7 fun -  (28 children)

I "wasn't listening" because I didn't want the rules to change...

You weren't listening, and still haven't.

The rules were NOT changing, the admins responses were being clarified from subjective bullshit to object solutions that admins and user alike could understand.

You took him and other admins for granted for years and have been exceedingly rude to them and others from your pompous high horse.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't...

This is true. So doing nothing gets you nowhere anyway. It just makes you a stick in the mud.

That's why this drama is so hard to avoid.

WRONG. Without ever opening up to management ideas from your admins and the community you've brought this all on yourself and upon SaidIt. We don't need dictates handed down from on high. You are NOT smarter than us collectively. We need to develop them together.

As I said in chat last night, my thought on all this in general:

I think this is not good. It's not bad either. We will figure out a way through.

M7 may be a dick-tator or try to open up as he really ought to. I suspect he'll quadruple down like the son of Castro.

Unless M7 does something extreme like pull the plug, it will continue on as it has for quite some time.

The enemies of SaidIt may try to move in for the kill, including the ones who are already on here (socks, ShalomEveryone, Ed, anti-American bot, others).

Unless M7 actually finds some good admins there may be a long slow decline - or maybe not. Regardless for a long time the steadfast of us will do our best to self-regulate our community.

Openness and transparency are the only legit solutions.

FreedIt may actually have a great role to play in helping prolong or even saving SaidIt from slow rot.

This is a HUGE paradigm shift, yet we may never feel it, or we may grow to lament it, or anywhere between.

I still said-it.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 16 insightful - 5 fun16 insightful - 4 fun17 insightful - 5 fun -  (12 children)

Bro. That's probably not helping.

You're probably the wrong messenger on this one.

[–]JasonCarswell 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (11 children)

Tell me where I'm wrong.

I AM the wrong messenger because M7 has MADE me the wrong messenger. This is all on him.

Also, FYI, d3rr privately thanks me on the regular for saying things he won't for whatever reasons.

[–][deleted]  (10 children)

[deleted]

    [–][deleted] 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

    BINGO.

    [–][deleted]  (3 children)

    [deleted]

      [–][deleted] 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

      Well I am everybody's friend, but Jason can be abrasive in multiple ways, including how you point out. While I agree with about half what he says in general, I find that his stance is often disingenuous, or even in bad faith, such as his earlier comment that "I'm the wrong messenger because u/Magnora7 made me the wrong messenger." Stop being a victim, Jason.

      But I don't have a general stance of "against Jason". I agree some, disagree some, and try to respect the guy even though I find he lacks honesty.

      You on the other hand, display a honest and good faith attitude to the topics you discuss, and I appreciate you for that. You get both respect and appreciation from me.

      OK enough with the sappy shit.

      [–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

      Stop being a victim, Jason.

      Define the difference between protest and victimhood?

      Should we all just gag on top-down management bullshit?

      I'm NOT a victim. magnora7 won't even respond to my comments. At all.

      M7 has chosen to NOT listen to the community at all and dictates - good, bad, and bullshit - from on high.

      Go suck your favourite flavour of authoritarian dick.

      even though I find he lacks honesty.

      Find me ANYWHERE where you think I'm not being honest and I'll show you how you have cognitive problems understanding bigger concepts than you can handle.

      [–]send_nasty_stuff 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      Good points.

      [–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

      You're the wrong messenger because you were suspended by M7 for the habitual gay innuendo, and such.

      Which you eventually got out of your system.

      As much as you might dream of me in that way, it was never habitual gay innuendo. In my youth here I experimented. If you'd like to whip out your prodigious "big"oted hypocra"dick" homophobia I'm still eager to mock the little tiny open-minds and free-speech of SaidIt by exposing the prodigious intolerance of salacious interactions in an orgy of rampant ramming of Christian anal-retentive judgmentalism relentlessly pounding the gas and trans in debauched excretions spewing all over our eyes like a bullshit-dripping bukkake.

      Notably.

      Note away. Currently the world has more pressing problems than spying and sniffing around others' bedrooms.

      Then after the fact, you came back with arguments that had some merit.

      It's extremely saddening that it seems that of all my output back then you want to remember a small handful of insignificant comments that others snowballed into the over-reactionary drama they thrust upon all our asses.

      By then, you had damaged your own reputation, and your credibility; with the founder of the site.

      Those who matter don't mind, and those who mind can go fuck themselves with a giant black dildo from their great collections.

      This history makes you the wrong messenger. Or maybe less desirable for difficult messages.

      Now that you've selectively dredged up my past for no particular reason, would you like to selectively dredge up your past - or more topically, magnora7's past, which is completely riddled with flecks of bullshit, lies, mismanagement, and inadequacies?

      Or would your rather discuss or even refute my central points to constructively move forward?

      I'm not trying to create conflict here. Are you?

      You already have. magnora7 already has.

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

        You were clearly harassing whomever, and you eventually quit using this hilariously obscene gay innuendo to humiliate your opponents.

        Yes. And I'd do it again, at the drop of an asshat's latex thong.

        Get over it bro. It's not personal to me.

        Agreed. But if you're going to publicly drag up trivial old prudish issues M7 had about me from 2018 or 2019, then at least make them relevant - or I'll have to publicly explain them away to those who read and want clarification and/or my views on whatever is alleged. MANY of us had and have issues with how M7 is managing this site without involving OUR community in the process. THAT is the real issue for MOST of our conflicts.

        But M7 didn't find it funny at all, and he dutifully read all of your comments (which were long form graphic novels); so he could respond to people making complaints.

        His lack of a sense of humour is not my problem.

        He didn't like reading it, and didn't find it funny. And you did it numerous times.

        So? There's much on SaidIt not enjoyable to read for anyone.

        M7 read numerous OBSCENE gay innuendo graphic novels written by you.

        I've never written a graphic-novel nor a sexually-graphic novel.

        I'm trying to be objective.

        Bullshit. Your hyperbolic exaggerations are extreme.

        Probably had better things to do.

        To bad he doesn't know how to collaborate or delegate very well.

        He wants to create a professional culture of open debate,

        Yet he won't even debate me, or anyone, professionally, about his management strategies. Perhaps he earnestly means to do it, but he can't get out of his own way, and he's comically pretentious in his critical thoughts - and you seem not to see this. If he could be real and authentic and flawed instead posing as the "authority" around here he might actually earn my respect. Even Horrux has respectable expressions half the time. (I won't comment here on the other half.)

        and obscene gay graphic novels cross a red line for many serious people.

        I was NOT REMOTELY graphic. I can do that if you want. Go re-read them. They were VERY tame, intentionally suggestive, compared to what's VERY possible.

        Bro. That's the long and the short of it.

        That's only your sensationalist take and selective memory on it.

        I was essentially on your side through all of this. Free speech purist, and all.

        Then address the actual issues at hand and through most of our history here, rather than dredging up some old goat-getting.

        Meanwhile, M7 was quietly raging about some fucking guy (YOU) who won't stop harassing people with gay graphic novels that he's forced to fucking read.

        "gay graphic novels" Now that's complete fiction. I did not write any such thing. Keep promoting this idea and I'll have to call you a malicious liar.

        I'm sure he had other problems to deal with as well, so he wasn't laughing.

        Not my problem. He should learn to collaborate and delegate well.

        First impressions are lasting.

        My first impressions were MANY good months before that all started. To say that's the first is as stupid as saying, "Ah, now I see your true colours," in a crisis or something. People have a WIDE range of diverse reactions to many scenarios under a spectrum of circumstances. If you or he can't get past these few engagements in a wide array of other things going on over a small period several years ago, that's on you guys.

        That's surely how you're remembered, so you should man up, and maybe even apologize to him cause he still remembers reading all of the obscene gay novels, and having better things to do with his time..

        Has he said this? Or is that how you surely remember me? Or is that you "surely" wildly speculating? Or are you picking at old scars to keep his PTSD fresh?

        Man up to the guy who won't even respond to my comments? Fuck grovelling for his approval when he's done little interacting worthy of my respect for years.

        The more you say "obscene gay novels", the more I'm convinced you're stirring up shit.

        He wasn't laughing.

        I don't care. It's not my job to entertain his royal magnora7, but I will jest nonetheless.

        Come on, bro. Make an attempt to remain diplomatic with M7.

        He can speak for himself. He won't respond. If you are his proxy, you can also deeply appreciate that silicon beast.

        Don't use dildos to open old wounds.

        You made it salacious. I responded the way you liked it.

        I'm not your enemy. Neither is M7.

        I know that. If M7 was my enemy I'd be reminding people of it all the time or be actively blockading your borders. Believe it or not, I actually minimize my negative words and responses about him. For the wellbeing of our SaidIt community we don't need it. But we also can't sit quite when bullshit is afoot. And I won't just let you or him malign me without clarifying. If you or he say stupid shit, that's more than enough to respond to defensively. I'm not here for war. I'm here for the free-thinking truth-seeking community, resistance to tyranny (great and trivial), alternatives, and solutions.

        [–]send_nasty_stuff 11 insightful - 4 fun11 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 4 fun -  (11 children)

        I think saidit still has potential. Magnora7 has had problems but he's willing to learn from his mistakes. (at least I hope he is). Let's not totally implode this place. We are running out of free speech platforms on the internet. Saidit still has the potential to be a reddit jump off spot but we need to work together to make that happen. Your comment is quite hostile to /u/magnora7

        [–]magnora7 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

        Learning from mistakes is my strong suit, that's why I'm assembling this new content admin team and writing a rules clarification page so they all know the rules and precisely how to apply them.

        [–]HibikiBlack 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        Not to brag but I post factual cases of corruption involving the government and corporations on a near daily basis. I already collected over a thousand. If you guys help me out with exposure then it would help the aesthetics of the site...

        I don't even care about being an admin, just that people see the potential of Saidit.

        [–]send_nasty_stuff 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        If you don't mind could you please consider carving some type of exception in the pyramid of debate and the content rules to allow for humor, art, religion, and memes? I've always thought that the saidit rules never quite addressed these unique exceptions. IMO it's only when people are politically debating in good faith do they need to be following POD with rigor. Communication comes in a lot of forms and we need to try to attract all types of communities.

        [–]AlanSmith33 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

        Magnora7 has had problems but I think he's willing to learn from his mistakes. (at least I hope he is).

        I guess we'll find out.

        I still remember back when users got instapermabanned as sockpuppets by M7 for simply agreeing with the argument of someone else who got instapermabanned as sockpuppets for having different opinions than M7.

        [–]JasonCarswell 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

        Let's not totally implode this place.

        This will not happen. At least not for a long time.

        But M7 needs to get real and wake up to his obvious inadequacies and allow us input and to help. Fuck all tyrants big and small. Bottom up is the only solution.

        You comment is quite hostile to /u/magnora7

        He often spins things. This is not new. His bullshit needs to be called out as much as anyone else's.

        [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

        I don't know man... Bottom up has led us to cancel culture, because it's easy for the inferiors of the human race to band together and impose their misguided will on the rest by being loud, obnoxious and unrelenting. That's bottom up for you, because bottom up means the most retarded moron has as much voice as the most evolved of great minds and souls. That's a way to HAVE problems, but not a way to solve them.

        Does a 180IQ person have a better idea how to solve problems than a 70IQ person? I say yes. If you say no, fine, but please provide evidence.

        [–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

        Bottom up has led us to cancel culture,

        Don't fool yourself. Infiltrators will corrupt the commies and capitalists alike.

        That's bottom up for you, because bottom up means the most retarded moron has as much voice as the most evolved of great minds and souls.

        People who are superior don't need to claim they are superior - or be judgemental and call others names or pretend they have better views.

        [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

        Don't fool yourself. Infiltrators will corrupt the commies and capitalists alike.

        You know what used to prevent that? MORALITY. But you yourself stand for immorality. And the commies don't need to "get corrupted", they ARE the corruption. Or at least, they are part of that mentality which IS the corruption.

        People who are superior don't need to claim they are superior - or be judgemental and call others names or pretend they have better views.

        The first part certainly is true. I am also not judging or calling names here, just stating FACTS. Some people objectively qualify for what the word "retarded" means, and same goes for "moron". These people used to not have voice, back when morality was the bulwark protecting the people against degenerates. As to "pretend they have better views", well... this is the crux of what opposes me to you: you like to pretend that a 70IQ moron, and that's a technical term, can have as valid views as an 180IQ genius. Or better yet, that a degenerate's views are equal to a moral person's or even to those of a fully evolved Übermensch. They are not and they cannot ever be.

        [–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

        You don't have a clue and you fail at trying to put words in my mouth I won't ever say.

        Bad faith makes you look stupid.

        [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        Sorry I can't hear you from underneath a pyramid.

        [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        Gab, Bastyon and Minds are free speech platforms. They're closer to facebook than to reddit in their functioning, but there certainly ARE free speech platforms out there. And more are popping up all the time.

        [–]iamonlyoneman 5 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

        Tell us you have a sandy vag but use more words

        [–]Tiwaking 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

        iamonlyoneman 2 insightful - 1 fun - 2 hours ago Tell us you have a sandy vag but use more words

        South Park: Got some sand in your vagina?

        [–]send_nasty_stuff 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

        Without ever opening up to management ideas from your admins and the community you've brought this all on yourself and upon SaidIt

        This is very true. I think the saidit community puts out a lot of great ideas and the admin here almost has near zero response to any of them.

        [–]soundsituation 14 insightful - 7 fun14 insightful - 6 fun15 insightful - 7 fun -  (1 child)

        If you're reading this from the beyond, you were a great admin and I'm sorry to see you go. And I hope you come back. There were a few months last year when saidit's future was more uncertain than not and we all have you to thank for righting the ship.

        [–]send_nasty_stuff 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        Same here. D3rr if you're monitoring this thread we appreciate all your hardwork and hope that you consider returning one day!

        [–][deleted] 13 insightful - 8 fun13 insightful - 7 fun14 insightful - 8 fun -  (11 children)

        [–]magnora7 16 insightful - 5 fun16 insightful - 4 fun17 insightful - 5 fun -  (9 children)

        I just messaged d3rr on another platform and he messaged me back. He said has no ill will towards me or the website, he's just completely done doing content admin stuff. And I totally understand. And he said life was also being difficult at the moment, so he wanted to take time and deal with real life. Which I also totally understand.

        So d3rr and I and saidit are all good, we're just "changing the guard" from d3rr back to me, and d3rr and I are both cool with it. So it's all good now.

        [–]Tom_Bombadil 13 insightful - 4 fun13 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 4 fun -  (3 children)

        d3rr carried the torch during some of the darkest of times.

        We wish you the best of fortune.

        Respect.

        [–]magnora7 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

        Couldn't agree more, d3rr is the man. When I was weak and couldn't go on, he was strong. And now he is weak and worn out, and I am strong. We make good partners in this way.

        [–]Tom_Bombadil 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        We make good partners in this way.

        You reluctantly gave away your baby; rather than see it die.

        Surrogate d3rr stepped up in a time of need.

        Honorable men.

        [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        Exactly how I feel.

        [–][deleted]  (3 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]magnora7 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

          Yes we do. D3rr and I have now both learned that the hard way. We need a team of like 10 content admins just doing 5 mins a day of work, then saidit would be in a good position going forward.

          [–]Zapped 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          In my opinion, managing people is the hardest job in running a business (or forum). It takes time to put the right people in the right positions. While some are quick to hire and fire, I find that the wrong person can do a lot of damage in a short amount of time and set you back a ways. I think you should consider a tiered system, where you have maybe two lieutenants who oversee the eight or so other admins. Maybe something similar for the moderators. If you think you are at risk for burn-out again, you should let your team do the work and you sit back and make sure they are staying true and not worry about you having to do admin duties.

          [–]send_nasty_stuff 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          Sounds good. Please be more transparent with us the next time the site goes offline please. That's all I ask. Also could you please add some backup admin in case you can't handle a site down scenario on your own?

          [–]magnora7 9 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

          I also want to add that he said he will still be willing to do some technical work for the website, so we haven't lost our tech support either. So really, not that much is changing. I'm just taking the content admin reigns from d3rr, just like he did for me 6 months ago. So from the perspective of an average user, nothing should change about the way saidit works.

          [–]jet199 12 insightful - 8 fun12 insightful - 7 fun13 insightful - 8 fun -  (3 children)

          Why are men so dramatic?

          [–]Jesus-Christ 6 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

          Yea it is pussy shit tbh, makes me cringe when stuff like this happens and it isn't a good look for the site. If you have problems just speak to them in private and keep it as such.

          [–]Tiwaking 4 insightful - 6 fun4 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

          Jesus-Christ 1 insightful - 0 fun - an hour ago Yea it is pussy shit tbh, makes me cringe when stuff like this happens and it isn't a good look for the site. If you have problems just speak to them in private and keep it as such.

          Now when Jesus saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, and he began to teach them.
          Yea it is pussy shit tbh,
          makes me cringe when stuff like this happens
          and it isn't a good look for the site.
          If you have problems
          just speak to them in private
          and keep it as such.
          Matthew 5-7

          [–]Jesus-Christ 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

          lol

          [–]Entropick 12 insightful - 8 fun12 insightful - 7 fun13 insightful - 8 fun -  (0 children)

          Jesus, I thought he fucking died for real for a minute, that sucked. This is really disappointing but I'm not surprised with the tension of everything, you guys do so much. Fuck I'm sorry to see this. u/D3rr, THANK YOU, thank you, I hope things resolve, don't give up, we're all in a jam.

          [–]magnora7 11 insightful - 8 fun11 insightful - 7 fun12 insightful - 8 fun -  (40 children)

          Okay...

          So apparently, judging by what I'm seeing, he has just walked away from saidit entirely. Because day before yesterday /u/AXXA changed the rules, and I changed them back, and d3rr had some sort of meltdown about being admin (which was entirely unrelated to the rule change issue) and just left I guess... pretty rash but I understand. He did content admin work for the last 6 months and it was wearing on him, but I had done it for the 2.5 years prior. I thought d3rr was doing a good job moderating the content on saidit, even better than me, honestly.

          He was wanting to clarify the rules, so we were building a rule clarification page. This was yesterday.

          I talked about opening a new site with higher quality rules, I talked about finding new admins.

          I guess he realized he could just walk away, so he did. Funny he did it right after I revealed the reason I had to take a break 6 months ago, which was the admin duties being overwhelming.

          Not a great move by d3rr here. Especially deleting the account seems counterproductive. I wish he had used his words and we could've developed a solution instead of making a sudden exit, but that's his choice I guess.

          I enjoyed working with him and we've done some great things, and I thought our conversations about the rule clarifications were going in a good way, and now this. But there's always been a bit of tension between us, especially the last couple years, and I'm not sure why, and I try hard to overcome that and but it can be difficult.

          So I guess I'm back to running this show again. I still don't know why he deleted his account other than to make some sort of "statement" about how done he is with it. But apparently not only admining it, but also participating at all. I hope he comes back some day. But if he doesn't I guess that's okay too, luckily everything is registered by me, so this won't affect the website being up.

          Sucks. I guess I'm running this site again now. D3rr if you see this, I understand and forgive you, it's not a big deal, I don't know why we couldn't work together on this when saidit is currently growing. It hurts, but if it needed to happen then it needed to happen. I walked away too so I can't blame him too much. But I didn't delete my damn account...

          His main thing is he was just tired of doing the admin duties 85% by himself (which is what I did for 2.5 years so I totally understand) but we were working toward a solution of rule clarification to help other admins be trained properly to take some workload off of him. But I guess he just decided he was sick of it, and he's done. Deleting the account was an overraction though, but whatever. Saidit will live on.

          /u/AXXA do you have any insight on this event?

          [–]AXXA 12 insightful - 6 fun12 insightful - 5 fun13 insightful - 6 fun -  (4 children)

          I will let d3rr speak for himself but maybe saying you forgive him is not a very good approach.

          I didn't change any rules. You were tagged from the very beginning of a discussion to clarify not change the rules to make them easier for everybody to understand. I have retired as admin due to you being demanding to me and not valuing my input.

          [–]magnora7 8 insightful - 6 fun8 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 6 fun -  (3 children)

          To be fair, you tagged me in a discussion about it and within 24 hours made the change, and worded it differently than what you and d3rr agreed on, and I veto'd it, which I think is within my right. I said we can make a "rule clarification page" to help clarify the rules, and you said you'd be willing to work with me and d3rr to do that. And now you step down?

          Thanks for the help the last 6 months, but I honestly don't understand why you are leaving. Sorry for the problems, I wish we were able to work together.

          [–]JasonCarswell 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          To be fair, you tagged me in a discussion about it and within 24 hours made the change,

          I completely agree that he was too hasty in making that post without hearing back from you. I was surprised by it but I also understand that one of my comments could have been seen as encouraging him to do so.

          and worded it differently than what you and d3rr agreed on,

          They invited me to add it to the FAQ and reword it to be shorter, as clear as possible, and to avoid encouraging name-calling. They could have easily done it themselves. On the FAQ we could also see it and each improve it as we liked until a consensus was reached - then hope you liked it. The announcement seemed premature.

          _we can make a "rule clarification page" to help clarify the rules,

          Retarded. Why not just clarify the rules?

          And now you step down?

          I don't like it, don't endorse it, but I understand why AXXA is also bailing. Maybe you'll take notice and do some self-examination.

          Sorry for the problems, I wish we were able to work together.

          This is on YOU. Open it up. FOTPACH. Bottom up. /s/SaidItCommunity

          [–]iamonlyoneman 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

          Seems like an ideal time to write rules the way it seems best to you and then open up for new admins to enforce the rules you want enforced on your own site. But what do I know.

          [–]magnora7 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          [–]Foidblaster9000 12 insightful - 5 fun12 insightful - 4 fun13 insightful - 5 fun -  (7 children)

          You did it for 2.5 years, but there's a huge difference between you doing it because it's your baby, and him possibly even just feeling trapped into it by feelings of obligation. Maybe he wanted to interact with other users here in a way that wasn't molded by acting as admin in your stead. You probably should have asked about the resentment and tension though.

          [–]magnora7 8 insightful - 6 fun8 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 6 fun -  (6 children)

          It's our baby. He and I coded it together.

          I wasn't changing anything, I thought things were going well. I was out of his hair. He was tired of doing admin work, but I didn't realize he was so burned out he was going to delete his account.

          [–]Foidblaster9000 12 insightful - 5 fun12 insightful - 4 fun13 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

          Have you paid attention to how he's talked about his role within saidit before? It read more like weary obligation even 6 months ago than any kind of excitement on observation. He might have personal problems going on in his own life recently that made him not want to do the role, or maybe something else got to him. You guys should probably talk about it, since that's a pretty big deal when you're responsible for something as time consuming as taking care of this place is. If you have contacts for him outside of here, I'd recommend giving that a go.

          [–]magnora7 10 insightful - 6 fun10 insightful - 5 fun11 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

          I wasn't excited about having to be saidit content admin either, but I did it for 2.5 years even during the IP2 stuff. It sucks. No one is excited about it. It's like picking up dog poop. You do it if you want to own a dog. You aren't excited about it, but it just has to be done if you want the dog. Content administration is just something that is necessary for this website to exist. He was very good and strong to step up to the role for the last 6 months in my absence and I honestly thought he was doing a great job, and I think the saidit community agrees.

          I'm sure he has stuff going on in his life right now, we all do, this is not a fun time in history. I wish him the best. I just sent him a message thanking him on another platform, good idea. He's a good guy. I'm just kind of in shock a little bit.

          [–]Tom_Bombadil 4 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

          I did it for 2.5 years even during the IP2 stuff.

          Shout out to IP2.

          [–]AXXA 10 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

          If you really believe burn out is what caused two admins to simultaneously quit then I would urge you to spend some serious time rethinking it. Meanwhile I am confident that Saidit will continue to thrive with you at the helm once again.

          [–]magnora7 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

          D3rr quit from burnout, and that's what he said. Yesterday you said you wanted to help, now you don't want to help. That's fine, but I don't fully understand it. I wanted to have conversations and develop the "rules clarification page" which is exactly what you wanted, and I wanted to use your own clarifications, but now you decide it's no good and are walking away. I don't get it. But you're of course free to do so, and I am very thankful for your help over the last 6 months. If you want to help be a content admin again, you are welcome to.

          [–]AXXA 6 insightful - 6 fun6 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

          👌🏿

          [–][deleted] 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

          I appreciate this is between you two and I should stay out of it, but if I may offer my 2 cents: I don't think d3rr has done anything wrong by deleting his account, even if I see your point that it was not necessary. My point is that the personal time and committment he's given is important here is such that the addition of mods some time ago and the reduction of spam revived the site, so that it's relatively healthy today. He also added AXXA as admin, which has helped. So if I look at this as an outsider - somewhat - the committment by d3rr and his approaches have developed Saidit significantly, so the problem here is - it seems - only a major lack of communication, whereby we would want to appreciate his approaches much more. (Disclaimer: I know d3rr is definitely no fan of me, but I wanted to say this anyway.)

          [–]magnora7 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

          I agree communication was the problem. I don't think d3rr has done anything wrong either, I'm just shocked he'd decide to do that. I am grateful for all his help building this website over the years and I think we have something special here.

          I just know when I walked away for a while, it felt like everyone was mad at me. Because a lot of people were. I just want him to know I'm not mad or anything.

          [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

          I see. I don't know of anyone who was mad at you, but that's my perspective. I think users want Saidit to grow and thus appreciate your work (here and elsewhere) and admin and mod work by others. My view has been that it seems to be difficult to keep people at Saidit from time to time, and an open discussion about that issue might help periodically.

          [–]magnora7 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

          I want saidit to grow too, as does d3rr, but to do that we are going to need help doing the work necessary to keep this site running. I just made a post about finding new content admins: https://saidit.net/s/SaidIt/comments/8w8i/anyone_want_to_help_be_content_admin_for_saidit/

          It is difficult to keep users on saidit, but I think that's equally true of other anonymous social media websites. There's nothing unique to saidit in that regard, although I do think low-quality content does sometimes drive users away, which is why I was thinking of opening another website too that has tighter rules to encourage higher-quality content which may attract more people.

          [–]raven9 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

          The content on this platform is good. Content is not your problem, the problem is lack of feedback. I tried to tell you and d3rr this several times. One of the things that keeps people coming back to other platforms are push notifications that tell them when people replied to their posts and comments. The Saidit Android app used to do that but no one bothered to update it when it stopped workin. You know I told d3rr about this. He just did not give a fuck about it. I think you need to look for team members who care about improving, updating and maintaining the platform and kick to the curb drama queens and authoritarian power trolls that just want admin rights so they can manipulate discussions and censor people.

          [–]magnora7 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

          We would need another developer in order to develop the app more. d3rr and I are basically trying to do 100 things at once so we just don't have free time to devote to the app, unfortunately. This community is very lucky d3rr has done as much as he has.

          [–]raven9 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

          Well I think you are missing the point entirely.

          If you cant keep your userbase coming back then you end up with a dead site. When everyone has notifications on their smart phone pulling them back into facebook, instagram, reddit, discord etc then saidit has to join the fray to compete for their users time or fall by the wayside. That is why this should be a top priority issue for the survival of this site.

          [–]magnora7 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          You make a good point, but right now having the site culture not split in half is my top priority, with the sudden shift in admin structure. Maybe in a month or two I can get to it, I agree it would be helpful to grow saidit and you do indeed bring up a good point.

          [–]JasonCarswell 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

          > and I should stay out of it, but

          Always ass kissing and meddling obliviously in bad faith.

          You'd see this if you hadn't blocked me.

          [–]fschmidt 8 insightful - 6 fun8 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 6 fun -  (6 children)

          Does anyone besides d3rr understand the code base?

          [–]magnora7 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

          I do, I helped program it and set it up originally. But d3rr understands it better. But no one understands it fully because it's over 1M lines of code.

          [–]magnora7 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

          Thankfully d3rr just told me in a message he'll still be doing technical work for saidit from time to time, so he's still going to help keep saidit online. So d3rr is still very much on team saidit, but no longer as a content administrator. He's basically resuming his backend/technical role for saidit that he used to have. And I'll just be taking over the content admin duties. So everything worked out okay, more or less.

          [–]fschmidt 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

          Where should I post technical questions? To https://old.reddit.com/r/saiditnet/ ?

          I just got SaidIt running on my Mac in Docker. I will play with it next week.

          [–]magnora7 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          Nice, glad you got the docker working. Maybe in /s/saidit, not sure. But I wouldn't go back to reddit, saidit will continue to be online. I suppose you could post technical questions on the github for the docker, if d3rr made a page for it. Or just on the saidit github page, there's an issues tracker

          [–]AXXA 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

          How long did it take you to get it running? Was it straightforward? Do you have any advice for other people that want to get it running?

          [–]fschmidt 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

          I had help from my sysadmin, so it was fast. If anyone wants instructions for a Mac, I can post it.

          [–]raven9 8 insightful - 5 fun8 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

          I read the conversation about the rules I did not understand the point about changing or making a new rule about name calling when name calling is already clearly illustrated as a no-no in the saidit pyramid of debate.

          https://saidit.net/static/PyramidDebate.jpg

          It seems to me all they need to do is encourage users to use the report button if they see offensive name calling and then as moderators they can decide whether to delete the comment or not. If no one complains about it just leave it.

          [–]magnora7 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

          I agree name-calling could be merged with ad hominem in the pyramid. It was part of the original Grahams Hierarchy of Debate. But I agree upon further reflection the 'name calling' category is too subjective and meaningless.

          [–][deleted] 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

          Personally, I would say it takes some gall to FORGIVE him. He stuck by this site through thick and thin, saved it from utter destruction while YOU left without a word for months on end. HE did for YOUR site what YOU yourself couldn't do.

          No, huge thanks and a bottle of champagne are in order.

          [–]magnora7 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

          I agree, a huge thanks and a bottle of champagne is in order for d3rr. He's a great man who has done some great work. I was just shocked he left, and wanted him to know I'm not mad that he left, is all.

          [–][deleted] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

          Believe you me dude, I am shocked too, but in retrospect, not surprised. Many a time, I asked myself "Why is he doing all this? Is he being paid top dollar? What's he getting out of this? What would it take, for ME for example, to dedicate that much to a site?" and I couldn't come up with an answer.

          [–]magnora7 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

          I think he's doing it because he believes in free speech and in this saidit project, just like me. It's a labor of love, out of morality and obligation to the improvement of humanity, as well as an expression of programming skill. D3rr is a talented guy who believes in free speech, and he donated his time and effort and skill and emotions for years on end to help everyone, and we should be super grateful. He is a genuinely good person, that's why I believe he did it.

          [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

          Makes sense, thanks for that explanation.

          [–]JasonCarswell 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          ^

          [–]HibikiBlack 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

          I'm really sorry to hear this. I mean It's like me, you and d3rr are one of the few guys from the old days left. Hearing him doing something as drastic as deleting his account puts me down. Just keep up the good work Mag. I'll keep trying hard myself.

          [–]magnora7 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

          Yeah it's a downer, but he's doing alright and he needs a break and that's totally understandable. He might come back some day and post again, who knows.

          [–]JasonCarswell 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          Because day before yesterday /u/AXXA changed the rules, and I changed them back,

          FALSE.

          and d3rr had some sort of meltdown about being admin

          This response is yet more dismissive pejorative crap. You have repeatedly insulted both AXXA and d3rr and don't even fucking realize it because you're obliviously daft and are more likely authentically obtuse rather than malicious like socks.

          You prance around here (and Reddit) like SaidIt is/was your accomplishment alone. Not only has d3rr put in the hard work, so have the countless users here. SaidIt is a community effort and your Napoleon complex has always smelled toxic regardless of those cult of personality types that worship you. On top of this insult is how you abandoned the helm of SaidIt for whatever reasons, for d3rr to single-handedly save it, and then months later you eventually ambled back to sit on the throne and bark your bullshit like nothing had happened.

          The insults were compounded on the fact that you've apparently completely took for granted all the hard work of your admins - and then nullified their efforts to streamline their critical work because your arbitrary rules are untenable.

          I thought d3rr was doing a good job moderating the content on saidit, even better than me, honestly.

          This is a fact. He's FOTPACH - fair, open, transparent, peaceful, accountable, consistent, honest. Aim for that and you'll do better. "Try again, fail again, fail better." ~ Samuel Beckett.

          He was wanting to clarify the rules, so we were building a rule clarification page. This was yesterday.

          You don't need a separate page. What was there was just fine.

          I talked about opening a new site with higher quality rules, I talked about finding new admins.

          You haven't even got a handle on this one. Why not develop these quality rules in a sub here openly to see if there's even any positive response and potential for this. When FreedIt launches the fray can go there, and maybe you can simply elevate SaidIt. This mysterious guru speaking from on high shit is tiresome.

          I guess he realized he could just walk away, so he did. Funny he did it right after I revealed the reason I had to take a break 6 months ago, which was the admin duties being overwhelming.

          NONE of this is new, nor surprising. He's been saying this for months. Your disrespect was the straw that slaughtered your heavy lifting pack mule.

          Not a great move by d3rr here.

          Kettle black.

          Especially deleting the account seems counterproductive.

          I agree with you on this. IMO, it's lame and annoying and passive-aggressive.

          I wish he had used his words and we could've developed a solution instead of making a sudden exit, but that's his choice I guess.

          He did use his words. You never listen - to him or others who are trying to help you. He's not a confrontational guy. I'm not either but I won't swallow bullshit and I try not to resort to passive aggressive tactics.

          Further, he was never after the power and thus never needed to be possessive with it. Neither have I. On the other hand, you seem to have an ingrained paranoia about sharing the management process and authority of power for some reason as if you think it weakens or subverts you to be fair and open up.

          But there's always been a bit of tension between us, especially the last couple years, and I'm not sure why,

          I think you'd be surprised at the results if you did a survey to see how many people felt welcomed by you when they first arrived only to find in a few weeks or months they were shunned with the friendship betrayed by an ongoing long-lasting sourness that would not fade as typically minor disagreements would. You've turned many of your friends into "enemies" when they really aren't. Worse, this bullshit spreads when you spread it, like how you convinced TAM that I was a problem, then you mysteriously left, leaving TAM as admin. That chaos was from your seeds. This is the opposite of being magnanimous.

          Your mysterious aloof ruler persona carries with it the extra weight of being the authority who should be trusted, despite you often being very wrong, but if you threw off that cloak and were just one of the guys, the common folks, you'd not only actually earn more credibility as an equal and respect among this fray (with many anti-authoritarians), but you could also openly discuss and improve your rules and critical thoughts.

          I still don't know why he deleted his account other than to make some sort of "statement" about how done he is with it. But apparently not only admining it, but also participating at all.

          I'm not impressed with the passive aggressive drastic measures for drama. Nor that he wouldn't ban socks and ShalomEveryone. Those are choices his to make and will be my only criticisms of d3rr you'll ever hear from me today.

          I do know that he never signed up to the be the enforcer, the rule-interpreter, or benevolent overlord of SaidIt. I also know that instead of being SaidIt admin he is more personally fulfilled and his coding and online platform skill sets are better utilized and more effective fighting the tyranny of the global class wars in all forms. He's wanted this shift for a long time.

          I understand and forgive you, it's not a big deal,

          This is lame on too many levels. I hope I'm misreading your meaning and/or that you could have worded things much much better.

          I don't have time now to explain. I have a US/Canada border blockade to attend in less than an hour to unfurl a 200+ foot big yellow banner, "We stand strong, we stand united, we stand for constitutional freedom."

          But I didn't delete my damn account...

          This is actually extremely lame on d3rr's part, IMO. I still respect his choice.

          His main thing is he was just tired of doing the admin duties 85% by himself (which is what I did for 2.5 years so I totally understand)

          His loyalty was absolutely astonishing. He followed your rules and intentions to his best abilities, no matter how absurd he thought them. This included your extremely limited social media management system that is in terrible need of improvement - and has been for years. Feel free to visit /s/Cassy for some ideas for how to delegate and build a trusted-team that can absorb much of the burden.

          Further, as I've said countless times, add a "donate" button prominently to the top of the page (banner or sidebox) to get the funds you need to not be a coward afraid of losing Patreons so you can change the rules as needed, hire some admins, and/or propose some code-bounties.

          but we were working toward a solution of rule clarification

          Wake the fuck up. You were forced into this because THEY took the initiative out of desperation only because they were exasperated dealing with your stagnant system.

          Saidit will live on.

          I hope so.

          You only discredit yourself if you keep on ignoring the ideas from OUR community.

          [–]goobandit 8 insightful - 6 fun8 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

          I love you u/d3rr ✌🏾

          Hope shit gets better for you and you’ll come back, or maybe shit gets better and you don’t want to. Either way, take care of yourself, homie

          [–]LarrySwinger2 6 insightful - 8 fun6 insightful - 7 fun7 insightful - 8 fun -  (0 children)

          Now he's /u/notd3rranymore.

          Yes, I know. That pun was d3rrible.

          [–]MarkJefferson 7 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

          Geez I thought he/she was dead for a second there.

          [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

          Sorry about that, heard a few people also say that.

          [–]MarkJefferson 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

          No prob

          [–]Tiwaking 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

          This makes me sad

          [–]LarrySwinger2 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

          Hey d3rr if you're reading this: let's stay in touch. I enjoyed chatting with you. If you don't want to be on Saidit anymore: maybe we can get the Session thing going again? I took a prolonged break from Saidit and this is the conundrum: when you come back, some of your friends may have left. Damn, I had such an awesome streak of not logging in but you made me break it just so I can make this post. I will start coming on Session again this week to see if you're still there.

          [–]Zapped 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

          If you see this from the beyond, d3rr; I know I didn't always agree with your opinions, but I always agreed with your actions. I honestly thought this site was toast when M7 stepped away for a while. You single-handedly kept it going and even improved it. You are selfless and I thank you.

          [–]TheFlailingOfLegs 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

          Why did he delete his account?

          [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

          I have no idea.