DebateAltRight banned me, and this was my response

submitted by [deleted] from self.SaidIt

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[–]send_nasty_stuff 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

I've now looked him up, and I have to admit - after reading several websites - I have no idea what up with him

You're probably getting a mixed picture about the incident because there's a lot of disinfo about what really happened.

Here's the incident from Bret's perspective

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-st73zhZL3A

Here are some raw clips left out of the national story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COJ2TZ9Mvps

It's a pretty fascinating story. It's hard to believe something like this happened in a western liberal arts college.

Perhaps I should explain that my responses here are merely meant to offer feedback for your arguments (not about fear, or whites, &c).. and to clarify that I do not really fall into some of the categories you mention. I am remarkably, boringly, middle of the road on many issues.

I appreciate you clarifying. I think that 'middle of the road' isn't really a good term anymore considering how wild and crazy modern politics have become. I also feel 'middle of the road' on a lot of issues but something tells me there's still a HUGE gulf between our views. I will say that after chatting with you a bit more I do think you are at least partially operating in good faith. You are just very tricky in how you debate people. You exploit holes in people arguments and force them into the minutia of an argument. Personally I don't really mind that but I can see how others will see this as tedious and even trollish. You kind of remind me of David Suzuki at the Rushton/Suzuki debate. You are like the polar opposite of Sam Harris who steel mans people arguments (before he attempts to tear them down). That's the way I like to debate but to each his own I guess.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

Thank you.

I think Saiditors can focus more on the arguments, and much less on who I am and what I might want. These latter two issues aren't important and they're irrelevant in any discussion (per the pyramid od debate). Many response to me are nonetheless about me, which I don't want to talk about.

I'll look up the names you mention.

Looking back at my arguments for Saiditors, I think I've helped people understand fallacies and holes in their arguments, if they were curious about those problems. In this manner their next arguments should have improved. It's also helped me to think about ways of carrying on conversations with right-wing and alt-right people, which is very difficult.

My approach is much like Jeremy Paxman's. He's the best interviewer I've seen. Some of my conversations on Saidit are much like the Paxman/Brand interview here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YR4CseY9pk (But Saiditors do not talk of revolution. My main question is sometimes: if you don't vote, why is your political opinion important? ) More Paxman interviews here: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/apr/30/jeremy-paxmans-top-10-newsnight-moments

[–]send_nasty_stuff 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

I've seen that interview but I'll probably watch it again. Brand is an interesting character. Looks like Jordan Peterson has changed his views a bit and I think he's trying to at least listen and entertain some new ideas. I can't help but feel a bit verbally hustled when I listen to Brand. He's very high IQ, especially verbally, but often lacks depth and experience on the things he talks about. The only thing he speaks on with any authority is addiction. I do think he might have a future if he doubles down and continues to explore politics and philosophy. Might be cliche but he has a beautiful mind.

Looks like you're a fan of fast paced brit wit. I am as well. If you stay on the edges of the dissident space you might learn about Johnathan Bowden. He's my my favorite British dissident. He had wit and verbal acuity in spades.

But Saiditors do not talk of revolution.

Saidit is so small I don't even see us as a distinct group. Most of us are either tech people, alt right that got kicked off reddit, curious conservatives, shareblue trolls, feds and of course indians. If you even mildly start to accept any of our views you will magically find your internet world shrinking. You will be stuck wandering in the intellectual desert for 40 years bouncing from social media site to site in a vain attempt to carve out a space for discourse.

My main question is sometimes: if you don't vote, why is your political opinion important?

Good question. You have to get more historical perspective. The citizens can exercise power in a LOT more ways then voting (I'm not necessarily endorsing any of these). They can riot. They can be non compliant. They can boycott. They form political parties. They can be hostile towards representatives of the government. They can form black markets or commit more crime. They can train their children to resist the system. It's not uncommon in history for governments and elites to rise and fall quickly because of these non voting power tactics. I mean are you really trying to say that black and female opinions were not important in the US before they gained suffrage? I think not. Both those groups had some level of influence on the political process even though they couldn't vote. Being a dissident doesn't mean not voting either. Some dissidents still vote, we just think that it's a forgone conclusion with the current two party system. Some of us even vote for more tyranny and more debauchery in the hopes the normies* will wake up to the corrupt system they are living in and join dissident political factions. That's called acceleration. Acceleration is NOT a push for violence. It's simply a strategic push to allow more radical left wing policies and politicians into power to speed up the creation of a viable third position party that can peacefully get involved in the political process and thus oppose the two party system.

*normies is a term we use for normal people not privy to dissident ideas and 4chan meme culture. Normies eat up everything the mainstream world sells them without critical thought. There's a women name Angela Nagel that even wrote about this internet subculture in a book called, Kill All Normies.

https://www.amazon.com/Kill-All-Normies-Culture-Alt-Right/dp/1785355430

Personally I don't think she did a good job and left some very important things out.

Andrew Anglin does a better job here of describing the rise of this internet dissident culture

https://dailystormer.su/a-normies-guide-to-the-alt-right/

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Thanks. I should look up these names before responding. I might note at this stage that another strategy of well-funded political groups is to make people believe that their vote and democracy do not matter. The result is that the authoritarian-oriented candidates win those elections.

[–]send_nasty_stuff 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I might note at this stage that another strategy of well-funded political groups is to make people believe that their vote and democracy do not matter. The result is that the authoritarian-oriented candidates win those elections.

I don't dismiss this but Brand was right in that interview. Voting in a modern context really doesn't matter. The quicker you internalize that the better. Just be weary of the black pill.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I'll also look forward to reading the other sources you mentioned earlier.

Lower voter turnout has always favored the GOP. In the UK, it's favoured Tories. The GOP, Tories and other right-wing groups are actively trying to reduce voter turnout. Brand helped them, though by using arguments that he does not support them, which is the most ridiculous argument, IMHO. People who do not understand it will think that they are not supporting the authoritarians, who however get the last laugh when they are elected.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

If you vote for a major political party with tons of lobbyists and bungled corporations behind it, you support globalist technocrats who care nothing for you. It's not support of the GOP, it's a vote of no confidence in the political process. Get that through your mind.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Don't lecture me. If you don't vote, you help the authoritarians and their supporters, who've paid for the disinformation websites used at Saidit. They're fucking up the US and your future. Vote.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

"Don't lecture me.

Don't peddle the lie that we have to vote or else forgo our voice. I hate reading your lies. People who don't vote have every right to speak on the political process of their country. And, as other users have stated, there are far more successful methods for changing a corrupt government than by voting in their co-opted events.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

there are far more successful methods for changing a corrupt government than by voting

And when those methods have been used, many have died and/or were subjugated by the authoritarians. I recommend a history text. If you don't believe in democracy, you are doing the work of the authoritarians. You're essentially a traitor to the 99% (if you don't vote; as this ONLY benefits the 1%).

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

If you vote for corrupt assholes, why is your political opinion important?

Personally, I think you just want to rule us up into saying that all politicians need to be lynched or something. You know there are good reasons for not voting, and you know there are solutions that do not involve voting.

You just think we can peacefully change the world, and it's stupid. You don't convince villains to walk away, and you don't convince normies to help force villains out. It doesn't happen.

There are better ways in dealing with these villains, and it's not by playing ball in their court that they've convinced you is fair and just.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Don't make this personal. You don't know me.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Neither do you know any of the people on this website, but you consistently make things personal against us, and all of our varied views.

For some reason, I imagined you as a black lady snapping her fingers, going "You don' kno-o-o-w me."